5 ms·

I've always noticed this as a weird development. In an ideal capitalist scenario, people will wind up with the job that suits their preferences to the degree th

I've always noticed this as a weird development. In an ideal capitalist scenario, people will wind up with the job that suits their preferences to the degree that they have enough career capital to be picky. But in reality, people just kind of fall into whatever job they can get and stay longer than seems rational. As a soon-to-graduate student, I hope I can hold onto the idea that the path of least resistance has a dangerous allure.

mattmanser 8y ago
As a soon-to-graduate student, you'll find out why. You need money when you have rent.
- gallerdude 8y ago
  Of course - for the better or worse, money fuels life. I'm just afraid of sticking with my first company for the rest of my life because I'm half satisfied where I'm at, when I could do much more interesting things elsewhere. Maybe I'll just be happy enough with my life that I won't feel a need to take risks. Maybe I'll be courageous enough to pursue greater net happiness.
  - mdpopescu 8y ago
    It took me a LONG time to figure this out (stopping at the first job that's mostly ok is not a great idea). Once I left it (VERY well paid by local standards) I discovered that things can get much better.
  - milesvp 8y ago
    At the end of the day life happens. Interviewing can take a tremendous amount of effort, and worse, since you generally need to hide it from your current employer, it also can feel gross emotionally. And on top of all that, the best time to interview is actually when you're generally happy with your job, and are working on projects that you like and are good for tou mentally, since you'll come across much happier and more conpetent. which is to say that you may not end up interviewing as often as you should. And when you do interview, you won't look as good as you could. And life. When you have experience and some seniority at a job it can be really convenient to stay put. Have a physical injury? Lose 6 months. Get married? Lose a year to the craziness that is wedding planning. Have a kid? lose 2 years to sleep deprevation. Buy a house? Lose 3 months to dealing with open houses and closing. Have a parent die? Lose 6 months to deal with their estate. You'll be surprised about the frequency that life throws things at you where interviewing is not only low priority, but also very risky because it'll be hard to put in the time and effort in those important first 90 days. So yes, take the risks, and be courageous, just don't feel bad if you look up and realize life happened to you, and you maybe stayed at a job a little loger than you should have.
    - jcadam 8y ago
      Also, as an employed engineer I only have so many vacation days I can burn on interviewing (esp. since I like to take an actual vacation every so often). This usually amounts to interviewing at 2-3 companies a year given each one involves multiple rounds, travel (if out of town), etc., only to hear, yet again, that I'm not a "cultural fit." So, I reach a point each year where I'm turning away companies trying to recruit me).
      - ethagnawl 8y ago
        > So, I reach a point each year where I'm turning away companies trying to recruit me). I know this feeling very well and, it sounds like, for the same reasons. I don't know about you, but my family/friends look at me like I have two heads when I tell them this -- as do the recruiters at Twooglezon. (It also must make me sound like an arrogant ass ...) I've decided that, based on recent experiences, interviewing with these companies is just not worth the logistical/emotional/psychological toll the exercise demands. I'm also pretty sure I wouldn't be happy if I got any of these jobs, anyways. (Something one of them recently told me in their rejection letter.) I've been running my own consultancy and have built up a modest network of clients, so if I'm really lucky, I'll get to continue to work this way for the foreseeable future.
        geekbird 8y ago
        Yeah, I regularly turn away recruiters from big name companies that brag about their "young" culture and "hip open office" or are a more than 30 mile commute in the SF Bay Area. BTDT, still have the t-shirts and the burnout. They would have to offer me a huge jump in title, pay and interesting work to get me to do it.
    - gawkface 8y ago
      Thank you for the last paragraph!! I have started calling life and the unknowns as luck :)
  - hellogoodbyeeee 8y ago
    I think it is important to work for as many different companies as you can during your twenties so you can figure out what is important to you. Then spend your thirties trying to find your way back to your favorite environment so that you can spend your forties in it.
    - joejerryronnie 8y ago
      Words of wisdom grasshopper.
      - qorrect 8y ago
        Yeah that's a solid plan , I found myself doing this without putting words to it.
ethagnawl 8y ago
> stay longer than seems rational People wind up _staying longer than seems rational_ because they develop habits (schedule, commute, favorite lunch spot, etc.), develop relationships with their colleagues, feel a sense of loyalty to the company/their superiors/their team/etc. (this is often misplaced, but irrationality rears its head yet again), don't want to go through the hassle of interviewing, don't want to have to change doctors if/when their insurer changes, etc., etc.
- jonstewart 8y ago
  Precisely. Rational? It's a multivariate problem. Get married, buy a house, have kids. Now you're juggling daycare and school schedules and dependent benefits. At the same time, you have to balance developing enough technical expertise to increase your value, learning new tech to say current (while likely having less time for learning), and paying close attention to your work projects to be sure you can reduce your accomplishments to a cold, hard ROI so the angel of death passes by when the economy slows and the RIF times come. And while more junior engineers can be forgiven 3 jobs in 5 years as they ratchet themselves up, seniors need to demonstrate they can stay somewhere for long enough to amortize their hiring, while avoiding getting stuck in a rut. Good luck!
  - mdpopescu 8y ago
    Again, this doesn't match my experience. True, I am a contractor instead of an employee, but I generally tell everyone beforehand that I'm mainly interested in 3-to-6 months contracts, not long-term. I've never had any problems finding contracts. I'm not unique: I have a friend (also a contractor) who managed a single 6-month job in the last ten years. Everything else was shorter.

mattmanser 8y ago

As a soon-to-graduate student, you'll find out why. You need money when you have rent.

gallerdude 8y ago
Of course - for the better or worse, money fuels life. I'm just afraid of sticking with my first company for the rest of my life because I'm half satisfied where I'm at, when I could do much more interesting things elsewhere. Maybe I'll just be happy enough with my life that I won't feel a need to take risks. Maybe I'll be courageous enough to pursue greater net happiness.
- mdpopescu 8y ago
  It took me a LONG time to figure this out (stopping at the first job that's mostly ok is not a great idea). Once I left it (VERY well paid by local standards) I discovered that things can get much better.
- milesvp 8y ago
  At the end of the day life happens. Interviewing can take a tremendous amount of effort, and worse, since you generally need to hide it from your current employer, it also can feel gross emotionally. And on top of all that, the best time to interview is actually when you're generally happy with your job, and are working on projects that you like and are good for tou mentally, since you'll come across much happier and more conpetent. which is to say that you may not end up interviewing as often as you should. And when you do interview, you won't look as good as you could. And life. When you have experience and some seniority at a job it can be really convenient to stay put. Have a physical injury? Lose 6 months. Get married? Lose a year to the craziness that is wedding planning. Have a kid? lose 2 years to sleep deprevation. Buy a house? Lose 3 months to dealing with open houses and closing. Have a parent die? Lose 6 months to deal with their estate. You'll be surprised about the frequency that life throws things at you where interviewing is not only low priority, but also very risky because it'll be hard to put in the time and effort in those important first 90 days. So yes, take the risks, and be courageous, just don't feel bad if you look up and realize life happened to you, and you maybe stayed at a job a little loger than you should have.
  - jcadam 8y ago
    Also, as an employed engineer I only have so many vacation days I can burn on interviewing (esp. since I like to take an actual vacation every so often). This usually amounts to interviewing at 2-3 companies a year given each one involves multiple rounds, travel (if out of town), etc., only to hear, yet again, that I'm not a "cultural fit." So, I reach a point each year where I'm turning away companies trying to recruit me).
    - ethagnawl 8y ago
      > So, I reach a point each year where I'm turning away companies trying to recruit me). I know this feeling very well and, it sounds like, for the same reasons. I don't know about you, but my family/friends look at me like I have two heads when I tell them this -- as do the recruiters at Twooglezon. (It also must make me sound like an arrogant ass ...) I've decided that, based on recent experiences, interviewing with these companies is just not worth the logistical/emotional/psychological toll the exercise demands. I'm also pretty sure I wouldn't be happy if I got any of these jobs, anyways. (Something one of them recently told me in their rejection letter.) I've been running my own consultancy and have built up a modest network of clients, so if I'm really lucky, I'll get to continue to work this way for the foreseeable future.
      - geekbird 8y ago
        Yeah, I regularly turn away recruiters from big name companies that brag about their "young" culture and "hip open office" or are a more than 30 mile commute in the SF Bay Area. BTDT, still have the t-shirts and the burnout. They would have to offer me a huge jump in title, pay and interesting work to get me to do it.
  - gawkface 8y ago
    Thank you for the last paragraph!! I have started calling life and the unknowns as luck :)
- hellogoodbyeeee 8y ago
  I think it is important to work for as many different companies as you can during your twenties so you can figure out what is important to you. Then spend your thirties trying to find your way back to your favorite environment so that you can spend your forties in it.
  - joejerryronnie 8y ago
    Words of wisdom grasshopper.
    - qorrect 8y ago
      Yeah that's a solid plan , I found myself doing this without putting words to it.

ethagnawl 8y ago

> stay longer than seems rational People wind up _staying longer than seems rational_ because they develop habits (schedule, commute, favorite lunch spot, etc.), develop relationships with their colleagues, feel a sense of loyalty to the company/their superiors/their team/etc. (this is often misplaced, but irrationality rears its head yet again), don't want to go through the hassle of interviewing, don't want to have to change doctors if/when their insurer changes, etc., etc.

jonstewart 8y ago
Precisely. Rational? It's a multivariate problem. Get married, buy a house, have kids. Now you're juggling daycare and school schedules and dependent benefits. At the same time, you have to balance developing enough technical expertise to increase your value, learning new tech to say current (while likely having less time for learning), and paying close attention to your work projects to be sure you can reduce your accomplishments to a cold, hard ROI so the angel of death passes by when the economy slows and the RIF times come. And while more junior engineers can be forgiven 3 jobs in 5 years as they ratchet themselves up, seniors need to demonstrate they can stay somewhere for long enough to amortize their hiring, while avoiding getting stuck in a rut. Good luck!
- mdpopescu 8y ago
  Again, this doesn't match my experience. True, I am a contractor instead of an employee, but I generally tell everyone beforehand that I'm mainly interested in 3-to-6 months contracts, not long-term. I've never had any problems finding contracts. I'm not unique: I have a friend (also a contractor) who managed a single 6-month job in the last ten years. Everything else was shorter.