6 ms·

Suing teenage brats is not an appropriate use of our legal system. I'm not sure of the policy implications but if someone brings an obviously frivolous suit th

Suing teenage brats is not an appropriate use of our legal system. I'm not sure of the policy implications but if someone brings an obviously frivolous suit they should pay a large fine. The legal system is being used to bully rather than dispense justice.

justtopost 8y ago
This 'brat' is no different than any other theif. If you defraud a company, and further, make a profit doing so, you deserve what you get. Don't excuse terrible behavior.
- oneplane 8y ago
  Their behavior might be terrible, but calling it 'defraud' is a bit weird, isn't it? Sure, we should be able to have gameplay without cheaters, but copyright, EULA and making money off of that is hardly comparable to any physical thing. Imagine someone making paper boats out of a book, selling them for one dollar each and the book has 300 pages (but costs 20 dollars). Is making paper boats suddenly copyright infringement? Or breach of contract? I think mangling law for profit this way is a load of bs and if this needs to be handled in court, the way to do it would be finding something that actually applies. At the same time, if the law doesn't provide anything for this type of cheating or selling software to help you cheat, then that is something that could be addressed, instead of hacked together (pun intended) by applying some bs law that should have nothing to do with this. Also, it would be much better if Epic gave the money to the security department instead of lawyers to actually fix the issue (it's an engineering/security issue, not a law issue). I'm glad this nonsense lawyering pretty much only exists in the USA and not the real of the world.
  - aardshark 8y ago
    I believe in Korea this could be charged as a criminal offence rather than a civil one. Which is even more crazy.
  - dxhdr 8y ago
    > Imagine someone making paper boats out of a book, selling them for one dollar each and the book has 300 pages (but costs 20 dollars). Is making paper boats suddenly copyright infringement? Or breach of contract? This isn't a good analogy. Creating and distributing cheats ruins the play experience for everyone. Making paper boats doesn't detract from anyone else's enjoyment of reading a book.
    - rukittenme 8y ago
      If you flip a board game you ruin everyone's experience. Doesn't mean you sue them.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      - dxhdr 8y ago
        This analogy is growing very thin. If you've got a business operating board games, and I start a business to flip your board games thus ruining your business, what recourse do you have? Hacking software and hacking an online service are not equivalent activities.
        oneplane 8y ago
        I think your recourse should be in a real world solution and not a soft-lawyery-fake-solution. I.e. with the board-flipping-case, glue your board to the table. Pretending copyright is a thing you can use to prevent people from flipping your boards is just stupid and ruins the copyright system even further, beyond the broken mess it is now. In real life games, say, a tennis match, you have someone sitting outside the playing field checking if you are playing by the rules, and stopping the game if you don't. That is the correct way to to things. You're not going to sue all the players that don't follow the rules, you just kick them from the playing field.
    - LocalH 8y ago
      But, in this analogy, one should assume that the copyright owner of these books can and does implement restrictions on "making paper boats out of a book" (analogous to restrictions on what code one can run on their own PC while the game is running). Should they be able to do so in such a situation? If not, why is it justifiable to allow copyright owners that level of control over their work? Now, creating and distributing cheats doesn't ruin the play experience for everyone. It's evident that it doesn't ruin the experience for those using the cheats. It's also possible that there are groups of people who wish to use cheats when playing separately from non-cheaters. Instead of suing this guy and shutting down the cheats entirely, I would suggest they should put those players on their own server, where they won't encounter any players who wish their experience to be cheat-free.
tomc1985 8y ago
What would you rather people do to them then? Brats need to be put in their place.
- rukittenme 8y ago
  This comes as a surprise to some but sometimes you can't put people in "their place". You just have to accept that some people are assholes. You can try to mitigate their behavior but you have no right to legal recourse.
  - tomc1985 8y ago
    That's exactly the attitude that lets assholes get away with what they do
- hiccuphippo 8y ago
  I remember hearing about games that clusters cheaters together, so it takes longer for them to find games since the cheater population is lower than the general population and it's cheaters against cheaters which must be not fun at all.

justtopost 8y ago

This 'brat' is no different than any other theif. If you defraud a company, and further, make a profit doing so, you deserve what you get. Don't excuse terrible behavior.

oneplane 8y ago
Their behavior might be terrible, but calling it 'defraud' is a bit weird, isn't it? Sure, we should be able to have gameplay without cheaters, but copyright, EULA and making money off of that is hardly comparable to any physical thing. Imagine someone making paper boats out of a book, selling them for one dollar each and the book has 300 pages (but costs 20 dollars). Is making paper boats suddenly copyright infringement? Or breach of contract? I think mangling law for profit this way is a load of bs and if this needs to be handled in court, the way to do it would be finding something that actually applies. At the same time, if the law doesn't provide anything for this type of cheating or selling software to help you cheat, then that is something that could be addressed, instead of hacked together (pun intended) by applying some bs law that should have nothing to do with this. Also, it would be much better if Epic gave the money to the security department instead of lawyers to actually fix the issue (it's an engineering/security issue, not a law issue). I'm glad this nonsense lawyering pretty much only exists in the USA and not the real of the world.
- aardshark 8y ago
  I believe in Korea this could be charged as a criminal offence rather than a civil one. Which is even more crazy.
- dxhdr 8y ago
  > Imagine someone making paper boats out of a book, selling them for one dollar each and the book has 300 pages (but costs 20 dollars). Is making paper boats suddenly copyright infringement? Or breach of contract? This isn't a good analogy. Creating and distributing cheats ruins the play experience for everyone. Making paper boats doesn't detract from anyone else's enjoyment of reading a book.
  - rukittenme 8y ago
    If you flip a board game you ruin everyone's experience. Doesn't mean you sue them.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - dxhdr 8y ago
      This analogy is growing very thin. If you've got a business operating board games, and I start a business to flip your board games thus ruining your business, what recourse do you have? Hacking software and hacking an online service are not equivalent activities.
      - oneplane 8y ago
        I think your recourse should be in a real world solution and not a soft-lawyery-fake-solution. I.e. with the board-flipping-case, glue your board to the table. Pretending copyright is a thing you can use to prevent people from flipping your boards is just stupid and ruins the copyright system even further, beyond the broken mess it is now. In real life games, say, a tennis match, you have someone sitting outside the playing field checking if you are playing by the rules, and stopping the game if you don't. That is the correct way to to things. You're not going to sue all the players that don't follow the rules, you just kick them from the playing field.
  - LocalH 8y ago
    But, in this analogy, one should assume that the copyright owner of these books can and does implement restrictions on "making paper boats out of a book" (analogous to restrictions on what code one can run on their own PC while the game is running). Should they be able to do so in such a situation? If not, why is it justifiable to allow copyright owners that level of control over their work? Now, creating and distributing cheats doesn't ruin the play experience for everyone. It's evident that it doesn't ruin the experience for those using the cheats. It's also possible that there are groups of people who wish to use cheats when playing separately from non-cheaters. Instead of suing this guy and shutting down the cheats entirely, I would suggest they should put those players on their own server, where they won't encounter any players who wish their experience to be cheat-free.

tomc1985 8y ago

What would you rather people do to them then? Brats need to be put in their place.

rukittenme 8y ago
This comes as a surprise to some but sometimes you can't put people in "their place". You just have to accept that some people are assholes. You can try to mitigate their behavior but you have no right to legal recourse.
- tomc1985 8y ago
  That's exactly the attitude that lets assholes get away with what they do
hiccuphippo 8y ago
I remember hearing about games that clusters cheaters together, so it takes longer for them to find games since the cheater population is lower than the general population and it's cheaters against cheaters which must be not fun at all.