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Why are "open offices are bad" stories so popular on HN? I've only ever worked in open plan offices, and can't say I've ever had a problem concentrating. I'm n

Why are "open offices are bad" stories so popular on HN? I've only ever worked in open plan offices, and can't say I've ever had a problem concentrating. I'm not sure what alternatives are popular, but if an employer forced me to work in a cubicle I'd immediately quit without hesitation. Having visited cubicle offices, they strike me as inhumane detention centres.

JauntTrooper 8y ago
I've worked in a high walled cube, a low walled cube, and an open office. The open office looked nicer and more modern, but the high walled cube was the most comfortable of the 3. You could work in the high walled cube without feeling like someone was watching over your shoulder, and people were a little more respectful about interrupting you when they came by. Low walled cubes encouraged more conversation over the cube walls, but open office somehow encouraged it less than the cubes because everyone had headphones and earplugs in.
- thrav 8y ago
  This has been my experience. Low walled cubes allow me to drop my chair and block everything else out of my line of sight, then stand up and have the ability to see everyone around me. It also hides everybody’s cords, which are always beyond messy and hideous in most open office settings. I think small cube wall (that acts as a backdrop for a stationary monitor or 2) is optimal.
  - fouc 8y ago
    Most open offices have tables that are designed with holes for cables and even trays underneath to keep it all organized and out of sight.
jfim 8y ago
Have you worked in an office building where individual developers have their own private offices to compare? From past experience, having a private office limits distractions and allows one to focus completely on the task at hand. As for cubicles, they're significantly worse than private offices; you get the drawbacks of both open plan offices and private offices, without getting either the privacy or the noise isolation.
mc32 8y ago
I feel the opposite. The open plan has parallels in communist/collectivist systems with all the negative aspects (surveillance, lack of privacy, etc.) but with none of the “positives” (not being able to get fired, ability to slack off, make up production goals, etc). It’s the worst of both worlds.
- dasmoth 8y ago
  Or even more so: the Panopticon (in its original sense) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon
- isostatic 8y ago
  It’s the worst of both worlds. Isn't that a matter of perspective? The command and control of communism, but with the incentives of capitalism, ensures maximum value is delivered from the person doing the work to the shareholders.
  - maxxxxx 8y ago
    When I look around my office I often feel a strong resemblance with what I have seen in East Germany. Motivational posters, public commitments to five year plans, messages from upper management that clearly contradict reality.
    - isostatic 8y ago
      Sure, however the shareholders seem happy, they're richer than ever -- look at the DOW. For them, the control over the workers, and the lack of slacking off, is the best of both worlds.
codyb 8y ago
I always thought of it like university, sure there's a few people who study in the cafeteria but most of us preferred the much more quiet areas of the library or own rooms to get hours of intensive work finished. Perhaps you were the cafeteria guy or gal, but most of us do worse trying to abstract extremely complex data flows in visually and audially noisy environments. Alternatively, maybe you worked in a quieter open office. A lot of mine have been inundated by chatter about Games of Thrones, uproarious laughter, and the smells and sounds of people masticating. None of which I find particularly conducive to work.
dorkwood 8y ago
Depends on the workplace. My last one was open office, but people were mostly on their headphones, so I never had a problem concentrating there. My current one has me seated near people who, apparently, have quite a bit of free time on their hands, so they spend most of the day talking to each other about nothing in particular. It's extremely difficult to think if you're not piping white noise into your ears.
tompagenet2 8y ago
Pure speculation: HNs perhaps more likely to have a personality type that values personal time and extreme concentration, which open plan might be less useful for. Also HNs perhaps have tendency towards being contrary or iconoclastic, so as open plan popular, articles decrying it popular here
- fromthestart 8y ago
  I think programmers tend strongly toward introversion, which does not jive well with the intrusiveness of open working spaces.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  I think it's the type of work. You can't do deep concentrated work in a bullpen.
thrower123 8y ago
Because open offices are fucking terrible if you are a programmer, with people moving around in your line of sight and yammering coming nonstop from everywhere. Concentration becomes far harder than it needs to be, and productivity plummets. My boss occasionally brings up the idea of swapping out of having private offices and dumping everyone in a big bullpen. I have to keep reminding him that I'm either quitting or working 95% from home if that ever happens.
dfsdfsdfsdfs 8y ago
may I ask what your job involves ?
munin 8y ago
I spent two summers of my PhD at research labs with private offices. It was awesome. At grad school, I work in an open plan lab. When reading or writing papers I find it very difficult to concentrate when people are having overlapping Skype calls on speaker phone or loud conversation near my desk. In a private office, I could take a paper and a whiteboard and really focus. Also, interruptions become less jarring. If I'm focusing deeply in an open office, I have headphones on. That means if someone wants my attention, they have to come up close behind me and tap me on the shoulder, which is pretty intrusive of the personal space. In my private office, I wouldn't have to wear headphones in the first place, and if someone wanted to interrupt, they would knock on the door. Much less intrusive. Interruptions also become less frequent. In an open office people seem to think that they can just come over to your desk and grab you to ask you, well, anything. The closed door has a good deterrent effect, people will interrupt you only for serious things, like lunch, "the building is on fire," and so on.
isostatic 8y ago
Before I started work I was waiting for stories of cubicle farms. When I started, reality was you didn't even get your own cubible, just a desk. Now you don't even get a desk, it's all hotdesking. I'm so glad I work from home now (most of the time), I get my own office, my own desk, and don't have to wear headphones. If I do go into the office for some face time, or to do something physical in the equipment room, I usually end up in the pub as there's nowhere to actually sit.
afterburner 8y ago
> Having visited cubicle offices Ah, so you didn't actually work in them. Yes, they don't look good, but those walls provide privacy.
wolfgke 8y ago
> Why are "open offices are bad" stories so popular on HN? I often say that programming is 8 hours high-performance mind sport a day. Every serious high-performance sportsperson would be furious if he/she were forced to perform training with, say, cheap sneakers from the next discount supermarket. So it is quite logical that programmers get furious about open offices.
maxxxxx 8y ago
To me cubicles are just a variation of open office with the same set of problems. It's about dedicated offices vs. sitting in the open.

JauntTrooper 8y ago

I've worked in a high walled cube, a low walled cube, and an open office. The open office looked nicer and more modern, but the high walled cube was the most comfortable of the 3. You could work in the high walled cube without feeling like someone was watching over your shoulder, and people were a little more respectful about interrupting you when they came by. Low walled cubes encouraged more conversation over the cube walls, but open office somehow encouraged it less than the cubes because everyone had headphones and earplugs in.

thrav 8y ago
This has been my experience. Low walled cubes allow me to drop my chair and block everything else out of my line of sight, then stand up and have the ability to see everyone around me. It also hides everybody’s cords, which are always beyond messy and hideous in most open office settings. I think small cube wall (that acts as a backdrop for a stationary monitor or 2) is optimal.
- fouc 8y ago
  Most open offices have tables that are designed with holes for cables and even trays underneath to keep it all organized and out of sight.

jfim 8y ago

Have you worked in an office building where individual developers have their own private offices to compare? From past experience, having a private office limits distractions and allows one to focus completely on the task at hand. As for cubicles, they're significantly worse than private offices; you get the drawbacks of both open plan offices and private offices, without getting either the privacy or the noise isolation.

mc32 8y ago

I feel the opposite. The open plan has parallels in communist/collectivist systems with all the negative aspects (surveillance, lack of privacy, etc.) but with none of the “positives” (not being able to get fired, ability to slack off, make up production goals, etc). It’s the worst of both worlds.

dasmoth 8y ago
Or even more so: the Panopticon (in its original sense) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon
isostatic 8y ago
It’s the worst of both worlds. Isn't that a matter of perspective? The command and control of communism, but with the incentives of capitalism, ensures maximum value is delivered from the person doing the work to the shareholders.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  When I look around my office I often feel a strong resemblance with what I have seen in East Germany. Motivational posters, public commitments to five year plans, messages from upper management that clearly contradict reality.
  - isostatic 8y ago
    Sure, however the shareholders seem happy, they're richer than ever -- look at the DOW. For them, the control over the workers, and the lack of slacking off, is the best of both worlds.

codyb 8y ago

I always thought of it like university, sure there's a few people who study in the cafeteria but most of us preferred the much more quiet areas of the library or own rooms to get hours of intensive work finished. Perhaps you were the cafeteria guy or gal, but most of us do worse trying to abstract extremely complex data flows in visually and audially noisy environments. Alternatively, maybe you worked in a quieter open office. A lot of mine have been inundated by chatter about Games of Thrones, uproarious laughter, and the smells and sounds of people masticating. None of which I find particularly conducive to work.

dorkwood 8y ago

Depends on the workplace. My last one was open office, but people were mostly on their headphones, so I never had a problem concentrating there. My current one has me seated near people who, apparently, have quite a bit of free time on their hands, so they spend most of the day talking to each other about nothing in particular. It's extremely difficult to think if you're not piping white noise into your ears.

tompagenet2 8y ago

Pure speculation: HNs perhaps more likely to have a personality type that values personal time and extreme concentration, which open plan might be less useful for. Also HNs perhaps have tendency towards being contrary or iconoclastic, so as open plan popular, articles decrying it popular here

fromthestart 8y ago
I think programmers tend strongly toward introversion, which does not jive well with the intrusiveness of open working spaces.
maxxxxx 8y ago
I think it's the type of work. You can't do deep concentrated work in a bullpen.

thrower123 8y ago

Because open offices are fucking terrible if you are a programmer, with people moving around in your line of sight and yammering coming nonstop from everywhere. Concentration becomes far harder than it needs to be, and productivity plummets. My boss occasionally brings up the idea of swapping out of having private offices and dumping everyone in a big bullpen. I have to keep reminding him that I'm either quitting or working 95% from home if that ever happens.

dfsdfsdfsdfs 8y ago

may I ask what your job involves ?

munin 8y ago

I spent two summers of my PhD at research labs with private offices. It was awesome. At grad school, I work in an open plan lab. When reading or writing papers I find it very difficult to concentrate when people are having overlapping Skype calls on speaker phone or loud conversation near my desk. In a private office, I could take a paper and a whiteboard and really focus. Also, interruptions become less jarring. If I'm focusing deeply in an open office, I have headphones on. That means if someone wants my attention, they have to come up close behind me and tap me on the shoulder, which is pretty intrusive of the personal space. In my private office, I wouldn't have to wear headphones in the first place, and if someone wanted to interrupt, they would knock on the door. Much less intrusive. Interruptions also become less frequent. In an open office people seem to think that they can just come over to your desk and grab you to ask you, well, anything. The closed door has a good deterrent effect, people will interrupt you only for serious things, like lunch, "the building is on fire," and so on.

isostatic 8y ago

Before I started work I was waiting for stories of cubicle farms. When I started, reality was you didn't even get your own cubible, just a desk. Now you don't even get a desk, it's all hotdesking. I'm so glad I work from home now (most of the time), I get my own office, my own desk, and don't have to wear headphones. If I do go into the office for some face time, or to do something physical in the equipment room, I usually end up in the pub as there's nowhere to actually sit.

afterburner 8y ago

> Having visited cubicle offices Ah, so you didn't actually work in them. Yes, they don't look good, but those walls provide privacy.

wolfgke 8y ago

> Why are "open offices are bad" stories so popular on HN? I often say that programming is 8 hours high-performance mind sport a day. Every serious high-performance sportsperson would be furious if he/she were forced to perform training with, say, cheap sneakers from the next discount supermarket. So it is quite logical that programmers get furious about open offices.

maxxxxx 8y ago

To me cubicles are just a variation of open office with the same set of problems. It's about dedicated offices vs. sitting in the open.