6 ms·

Don't look so far. It's just cheaper. Also it gives managers the feeling they can avoid people slacking off because everbody see what you are doing.

maxxxxx 8y ago
"It's just cheaper." Is that really true? We have a ton of meeting rooms and other space that also use up a lot of space. You don't need meeting rooms if people can sit together in their offices.
mc32 8y ago
Absolutely agree with that. I’ve also seen it cargo culted. It’s been implemented because, “well, if successful multibillion dollar companies are doing it, it must be good... it's probably part their success.” Of course pointing out the negative aspects and asking questions automatically got you labeled as “not being a team player.”
- existencebox 8y ago
  This is an issue on which I feel strongly enough to speak about on an account I've connected to my employer. (I am a Microsoftie, and not because I think you believe this, but to support your point) It's _certainly not_ part of our success. I'd even go so far as to say our success is in spite of it. I've seen many engineers, including the single most competent dev I've ever worked with, migrate to other companies as their teams were moved out of personal offices or into larger open offices. I've also seen my own (and my teammate's) work and culture suffer, as we have to work later, fight distractions, and often politik internally to fight for the "best seat" (actually having one wall). This is, to me, an absurd situation to put professional adults in. This process is only partially complete, and changes take a while to take effect, so it's to be seen what the tractable results are, but in the same way I called out our bad choice by the manner in which we dissolved SDETs, the push for open offices is a canonically bad choice. (This is only my opinion, I in no way speak for the company etc etc)
  - maxxxxx 8y ago
    The funny thing is that years ago when MS was at the top of the world MS always pointed out that every dev had a private office and made it sound like that was the secret of their success.
    - existencebox 8y ago
      Having been on a team moved out of single offices, and being able to look at our ship schedule pre and post, I would agree with that it was, at least for us, the secret sauce. (or perhaps more accurately, the people we lost due to losing our offices were a component of that secret sauce) I almost wish I had never had an office in hindsight, because when I was just crammed into open spaces out of uni I took it in stride, but once I had an office years back I refused to go back to open spaces, the QOL hit was just too significant. It's really a constant wonder for me how the powers that be at various bigCo's have managed to sell this disaster. I have to think it's money, but every higher up I've probed seems to drink the koolaid on the surface ("collaberation! teamwork!")
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  “not being a team player.” That's often a very cynical euphemism for "not following orders without questioning".

maxxxxx 8y ago

"It's just cheaper." Is that really true? We have a ton of meeting rooms and other space that also use up a lot of space. You don't need meeting rooms if people can sit together in their offices.

mc32 8y ago

Absolutely agree with that. I’ve also seen it cargo culted. It’s been implemented because, “well, if successful multibillion dollar companies are doing it, it must be good... it's probably part their success.” Of course pointing out the negative aspects and asking questions automatically got you labeled as “not being a team player.”

existencebox 8y ago
This is an issue on which I feel strongly enough to speak about on an account I've connected to my employer. (I am a Microsoftie, and not because I think you believe this, but to support your point) It's _certainly not_ part of our success. I'd even go so far as to say our success is in spite of it. I've seen many engineers, including the single most competent dev I've ever worked with, migrate to other companies as their teams were moved out of personal offices or into larger open offices. I've also seen my own (and my teammate's) work and culture suffer, as we have to work later, fight distractions, and often politik internally to fight for the "best seat" (actually having one wall). This is, to me, an absurd situation to put professional adults in. This process is only partially complete, and changes take a while to take effect, so it's to be seen what the tractable results are, but in the same way I called out our bad choice by the manner in which we dissolved SDETs, the push for open offices is a canonically bad choice. (This is only my opinion, I in no way speak for the company etc etc)
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  The funny thing is that years ago when MS was at the top of the world MS always pointed out that every dev had a private office and made it sound like that was the secret of their success.
  - existencebox 8y ago
    Having been on a team moved out of single offices, and being able to look at our ship schedule pre and post, I would agree with that it was, at least for us, the secret sauce. (or perhaps more accurately, the people we lost due to losing our offices were a component of that secret sauce) I almost wish I had never had an office in hindsight, because when I was just crammed into open spaces out of uni I took it in stride, but once I had an office years back I refused to go back to open spaces, the QOL hit was just too significant. It's really a constant wonder for me how the powers that be at various bigCo's have managed to sell this disaster. I have to think it's money, but every higher up I've probed seems to drink the koolaid on the surface ("collaberation! teamwork!")
maxxxxx 8y ago
“not being a team player.” That's often a very cynical euphemism for "not following orders without questioning".