4 ms·

And these days they prohibit checked batteries.

manquer 8y ago
After the Samsung note glitch I can see where they are coming from...
logifail 8y ago
How is this prohibition supposed to be enforced? I've recent experience of flying with checked luggage which contained multiple AA NiMH rechargable batteries, spare camera batteries, and on one occasion even a fully-charged 16000 mAh power bank.
- zaarn 8y ago
  XRay Machine, usually.
  - logifail 8y ago
    Are we saying that when the hold baggage is screened then just because of a stray battery or power pack they're going to ... do what, exactly? Not carry that bag on your flight and leave the airline scrambling to reunite passenger with luggage? Page the passenger (who is almost certainly airside by that point) and try to get them to come (where?) to repack/deal with the contents? I've never heard of a facility where an airside passenger can temporarily get access to hold baggage once it's been screened. Wouldn't the passenger and the hold bag each have to go back through the relevant screening channel after this interaction? I've checked batteries dozens of times and never give it a second thought. As it turns out, I had two sets of brand-new NiMH AAs in my checked luggage this morning.
    - munin 8y ago
      If they wanted to, once detecting a battery, they could: 1. Open the luggage themselves 2. Remove the item containing the battery 3. Replace it with a note saying that the item was removed 4. Close the luggage back up 5. Put the luggage back on the plane 6. Discard the item What are you going to do, sue them? Post bad things about them on social media?
      - logifail 8y ago
        "If they wanted to" shouldn't really be part of any sane security policy. If 'X' is genuinely dangerous, then always deal with X as if it were actually dangerous[1]; if X is however not dangerous, stop pretending. [1] for instance the policy of confiscating >100ml bottles of liquid at airport security "because reasons" then have agents simply stuff these dangerous liquids into one large bin and leave them there at the screening point for hours.
        munin 8y ago
        That's not really what I meant. What I meant was, you seem to act as if enforcement of this policy would require a lot of logistical work on the part of the airline to ensure that the passenger wasn't separated from their bags, or that they were compensated for whatever they had to ditch due to security. However, that is not actually the policy or law they have to follow, and they are free to do arbitrary things. This makes enforcement much easier. Whether or not that is "sane" or "right" or "wrong" isn't material to my counter-point.
        logifail 8y ago
        I'm not convinced that airlines want to get into the business of arbitrary confiscation of non-compliant items from hold baggage especially if it's to be carried out when the passenger isn't present.
    - zaarn 8y ago
      >Are we saying that when the hold baggage is screened then just because of a stray battery or power pack they're going to ... do what, exactly? Not only for stray batteries, it's screened for all kinds of things, including drugs, bombs and other non-allowed items or dangerous stuff. To my knowledge, if they do find something, you'll have some security guards come up to you and escort you to a separate section of the airport where you will be unpacking your luggage and remove the offending item, then repackage and you can go on (or not if the offense is too great to ignore).
      - logifail 8y ago
        >> if they do find something, you'll have some security guards come up to you and escort you to a separate section of the airport I'm saying I have dozens of personal counter-examples to this claim, including another one from this morning, specifically relating to travelling with checked luggage containing batteries. Hypothesis #1: maybe the "no batteries" policy is nowhere near as strictly enforced as people think it is? Hypothesis #2: maybe other aspects of aviation security are nowhere near as strictly enforced as people think they are? Who knows, maybe it is mostly security theatre?
        zaarn 8y ago
        Or maybe you didn't get spotted so far and the airline you travel with is lax in this regard. I've definitely been pulled out for batteries in the past.
        logifail 8y ago
        Q: is it really "the airline" or - more likely - the [relevant] government a) setting and b) enforcing policies such as these?
        zaarn 8y ago
        Usually a mix of both, depends heavily on where you are, in my country security is mandated by government but the exact procedures are left to the individual airports and evaluated by government agencies. IIRC the US has the TSA but Airports can outsource to other third parties if the TSA permits it. I don't see how that question is really relevant considering your bag will be atleast xrayed by one of the two at some point.
    - sho 8y ago
      > they're going to ... do what, exactly? I can tell you exactly what they do as this happened to me ~9 months ago when I had inadvertently left an e-cigarette in a checked suitcase. I was indeed paged (I was airside) to report to a service desk, where the (quite friendly) staff led me through secure areas into the bowels of the airport, where my suitcase was awaiting me on what could be described as an "off-ramp" to the baggage roller system. I was then requested to open my suitcase and retrieve the offending item, did so, and all was well. > I've checked batteries dozens of times and never give it a second thought I suspect that if you start travelling through more modern airports with the kind of enhanced screening that got me you'll definitely be giving it a second thought... I also have checked them dozens of times but as screening gets updated it's looking like a thing of the past.
      - logifail 8y ago
        >> start travelling through more modern airports [No snark intended but] can you give us a definition of "modern" so I can compare against where I usually check my batteries from? OT, but I did once attempt to get a hot chocolate brownie with ice-cream topping through gate security at FRA; the x-ray operator was fine with it but his colleague called the supervisor over. I was eating it (quickly) while she and I were debating whether ice-cream was "a liquid", she really didn't like that. I handed the last 1/10th back :)
        sho 8y ago
        > can you give us a definition of "modern" Ah, I should have probably said "airports with modern equipment" as I presume this stuff is susceptible to periodic updates regardless of the age of the airport. I suppose it does need a fairly recent baggage management system. For reference, it happened to me at Adelaide airport in Australia, which is about 10 years old. I guess then by modern I mean any first-world airport built within the last decade or so? As noted I've flown with li-on and everything else in checked baggage a million times too and it was the first time it happened to me, so I assume the mandate is fairly recent. That story is ridiculous, but makes me wonder what would happen if you tried to bring through a frozen bottle of water?
gambiting 8y ago
That's not true, as long as the battery is installed inside the device. You only can't check in spare batteries - they have to go in your hand luggage.

After the Samsung note glitch I can see where they are coming from...

How is this prohibition supposed to be enforced? I've recent experience of flying with checked luggage which contained multiple AA NiMH rechargable batteries, spare camera batteries, and on one occasion even a fully-charged 16000 mAh power bank.

zaarn 8y ago
XRay Machine, usually.
- logifail 8y ago
  Are we saying that when the hold baggage is screened then just because of a stray battery or power pack they're going to ... do what, exactly? Not carry that bag on your flight and leave the airline scrambling to reunite passenger with luggage? Page the passenger (who is almost certainly airside by that point) and try to get them to come (where?) to repack/deal with the contents? I've never heard of a facility where an airside passenger can temporarily get access to hold baggage once it's been screened. Wouldn't the passenger and the hold bag each have to go back through the relevant screening channel after this interaction? I've checked batteries dozens of times and never give it a second thought. As it turns out, I had two sets of brand-new NiMH AAs in my checked luggage this morning.
  - munin 8y ago
    If they wanted to, once detecting a battery, they could: 1. Open the luggage themselves 2. Remove the item containing the battery 3. Replace it with a note saying that the item was removed 4. Close the luggage back up 5. Put the luggage back on the plane 6. Discard the item What are you going to do, sue them? Post bad things about them on social media?
    - logifail 8y ago
      "If they wanted to" shouldn't really be part of any sane security policy. If 'X' is genuinely dangerous, then always deal with X as if it were actually dangerous[1]; if X is however not dangerous, stop pretending. [1] for instance the policy of confiscating >100ml bottles of liquid at airport security "because reasons" then have agents simply stuff these dangerous liquids into one large bin and leave them there at the screening point for hours.
      - munin 8y ago
        That's not really what I meant. What I meant was, you seem to act as if enforcement of this policy would require a lot of logistical work on the part of the airline to ensure that the passenger wasn't separated from their bags, or that they were compensated for whatever they had to ditch due to security. However, that is not actually the policy or law they have to follow, and they are free to do arbitrary things. This makes enforcement much easier. Whether or not that is "sane" or "right" or "wrong" isn't material to my counter-point.
        logifail 8y ago
        I'm not convinced that airlines want to get into the business of arbitrary confiscation of non-compliant items from hold baggage especially if it's to be carried out when the passenger isn't present.
  - zaarn 8y ago
    >Are we saying that when the hold baggage is screened then just because of a stray battery or power pack they're going to ... do what, exactly? Not only for stray batteries, it's screened for all kinds of things, including drugs, bombs and other non-allowed items or dangerous stuff. To my knowledge, if they do find something, you'll have some security guards come up to you and escort you to a separate section of the airport where you will be unpacking your luggage and remove the offending item, then repackage and you can go on (or not if the offense is too great to ignore).
    - logifail 8y ago
      >> if they do find something, you'll have some security guards come up to you and escort you to a separate section of the airport I'm saying I have dozens of personal counter-examples to this claim, including another one from this morning, specifically relating to travelling with checked luggage containing batteries. Hypothesis #1: maybe the "no batteries" policy is nowhere near as strictly enforced as people think it is? Hypothesis #2: maybe other aspects of aviation security are nowhere near as strictly enforced as people think they are? Who knows, maybe it is mostly security theatre?
      - zaarn 8y ago
        Or maybe you didn't get spotted so far and the airline you travel with is lax in this regard. I've definitely been pulled out for batteries in the past.
        logifail 8y ago
        Q: is it really "the airline" or - more likely - the [relevant] government a) setting and b) enforcing policies such as these?
        zaarn 8y ago
        Usually a mix of both, depends heavily on where you are, in my country security is mandated by government but the exact procedures are left to the individual airports and evaluated by government agencies. IIRC the US has the TSA but Airports can outsource to other third parties if the TSA permits it. I don't see how that question is really relevant considering your bag will be atleast xrayed by one of the two at some point.
  - sho 8y ago
    > they're going to ... do what, exactly? I can tell you exactly what they do as this happened to me ~9 months ago when I had inadvertently left an e-cigarette in a checked suitcase. I was indeed paged (I was airside) to report to a service desk, where the (quite friendly) staff led me through secure areas into the bowels of the airport, where my suitcase was awaiting me on what could be described as an "off-ramp" to the baggage roller system. I was then requested to open my suitcase and retrieve the offending item, did so, and all was well. > I've checked batteries dozens of times and never give it a second thought I suspect that if you start travelling through more modern airports with the kind of enhanced screening that got me you'll definitely be giving it a second thought... I also have checked them dozens of times but as screening gets updated it's looking like a thing of the past.
    - logifail 8y ago
      >> start travelling through more modern airports [No snark intended but] can you give us a definition of "modern" so I can compare against where I usually check my batteries from? OT, but I did once attempt to get a hot chocolate brownie with ice-cream topping through gate security at FRA; the x-ray operator was fine with it but his colleague called the supervisor over. I was eating it (quickly) while she and I were debating whether ice-cream was "a liquid", she really didn't like that. I handed the last 1/10th back :)
      - sho 8y ago
        > can you give us a definition of "modern" Ah, I should have probably said "airports with modern equipment" as I presume this stuff is susceptible to periodic updates regardless of the age of the airport. I suppose it does need a fairly recent baggage management system. For reference, it happened to me at Adelaide airport in Australia, which is about 10 years old. I guess then by modern I mean any first-world airport built within the last decade or so? As noted I've flown with li-on and everything else in checked baggage a million times too and it was the first time it happened to me, so I assume the mandate is fairly recent. That story is ridiculous, but makes me wonder what would happen if you tried to bring through a frozen bottle of water?

gambiting 8y ago

That's not true, as long as the battery is installed inside the device. You only can't check in spare batteries - they have to go in your hand luggage.