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>>The story of this law has been dominated largely by what isn't in it: no restrictions on what airlines can charge for baggage or change fees. That's a market

>>The story of this law has been dominated largely by what isn't in it: no restrictions on what airlines can charge for baggage or change fees. That's a market decision. It really irks me when people demand price controls for innocuous things. All the airlines will do is find another way to make you eat the cost. This should become area where one airline can one up other competition wise.

Analemma_ 8y ago
No one is asking for price controls, we’re asking for price transparency. The problem with baggage fees etc. is that they are tacked on after you’ve gone through the rigmarole of purchasing your ticket, and the advertised prices are just lies.
- brandonmenc 8y ago
  Baggage fees are advertised, and everyone knows the ticket price does not include checked luggage. How much more transparent can they get? There is literally no lying whatsoever going on here.
- harryh 8y ago
  Expedia.com displays baggage fees right in the results list when you do a search for a flight.
- jonny_eh 8y ago
  Not everyone checks bags.
jsemrau 8y ago
If the market is fair there is no problem. The moment you get quasi-monopolies the "market" is heavily tilted in favor of the airline. For example if your flight out of Newark is only operated by United Airlines, what choice do you as a market participant do you truly have? [source]https://futuretravel.today/united-airlines-should-go-out-of-business-325e9983e51f https://futuretravel.today/united-airlines-should-go-out-of-...
- choxi 8y ago
  There aren't any quasi-monopolies in the airline industry though, are there? I've always found it interesting that the airline industry is very competitive yet airlines haven't gotten any better or cheaper in decades.
  - AlotOfReading 8y ago
    Tickets have gotten dramatically cheaper over that period. A round trip ticket to Europe from the US costs under $300. A ticket to Australia can be had for about $600. In Europe, prices have dropped so much that planes are cost-competitive with buses between many neighboring countries. Part of this is because of reductions in services provided to basic economy fares, but ultimately even similar tickets are now about 40% cheaper than they were in the 90s. It's an amazing time to travel.
  - InTheArena 8y ago
    This isn’t correct - since deregulation airfare has consistently gone down - 17% over the last two decades. That trend has slowed as we basically have gotten to the point where the cost per available seat mile has really can’t get any lowere without firing half the pilots and skimping on maintainence. Airplanes are being used until they can’t fly any more. Here’s a reasonable summary http://www.aei.org/publication/the-cost-of-air-travel-in-the-us-has-been-remarkably-stable-for-the-last-decade-and-17-cheaper-than-20-years-ago/ http://www.aei.org/publication/the-cost-of-air-travel-in-the...
    - mediawatcher234 8y ago
      You should know that AEI (the source you linked) is not trustworthy on these issues. David Frum was fired by AEI for daring to say that Obamacare might be good, due to "donor pressure" (cite: Axios). (Notwithstanding the fact that some conservatives have tried to deny that's the reason AEI fired Frum) AEI uses motivated reasoning (you might call it propaganda) to achieve their goals - pro-business, pro-billionaire, anti-worker. Anyway. Take any pro-deregulation paper you read from AEI with a HUGE grain of salt. https://www.thenation.com/article/dont-cry-david-frum/ https://www.thenation.com/article/dont-cry-david-frum/ (This comment is /not/ politics - it's important to know the agenda behind sources we cite if we want to evaluate them fairly.)
Noumenon72 8y ago
It's not entirely a market decision due to earlier government regulation: baggage fees are not subject to excise tax, so if an airline could charge $5 for your ticket and $600 for your bag they would be way ahead, even if you'd rather not have checked it. https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com/2015/04/21/the-real-reason-airlines-charge-checked-bag-fees-and-its-not-what-you-think https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com/2015/04/21/the-real...
tlrobinson 8y ago
I agree, but flight search tools need to start factoring this in their price results (but it's not always simple, some budget airlines charge for large carry on bags, and the size limits vary)
InTheArena 8y ago
Air travel is still one area ironically the US is way more regulated then overseas. With the exception of two airports (if I recall correctly), airports are still government owned. It’s only been since the 1980s that carriers could fly between two separate cities without govnrnnental approval. That said, having flown a few times in India and Europe on some truest loathsome airlines, it works. Airfares are going down or are holding constant at a time when all of the other stuff - housing, health care have skyrocketed.
- khuey 8y ago
  Airport costs (landing fees, gate rental, etc) aren't a particularly large component of airfares though. Fuel, staff, and planes dominate.

Analemma_ 8y ago

No one is asking for price controls, we’re asking for price transparency. The problem with baggage fees etc. is that they are tacked on after you’ve gone through the rigmarole of purchasing your ticket, and the advertised prices are just lies.

brandonmenc 8y ago
Baggage fees are advertised, and everyone knows the ticket price does not include checked luggage. How much more transparent can they get? There is literally no lying whatsoever going on here.
harryh 8y ago
Expedia.com displays baggage fees right in the results list when you do a search for a flight.
jonny_eh 8y ago
Not everyone checks bags.

jsemrau 8y ago

If the market is fair there is no problem. The moment you get quasi-monopolies the "market" is heavily tilted in favor of the airline. For example if your flight out of Newark is only operated by United Airlines, what choice do you as a market participant do you truly have? [source]https://futuretravel.today/united-airlines-should-go-out-of-business-325e9983e51f https://futuretravel.today/united-airlines-should-go-out-of-...

choxi 8y ago
There aren't any quasi-monopolies in the airline industry though, are there? I've always found it interesting that the airline industry is very competitive yet airlines haven't gotten any better or cheaper in decades.
- AlotOfReading 8y ago
  Tickets have gotten dramatically cheaper over that period. A round trip ticket to Europe from the US costs under $300. A ticket to Australia can be had for about $600. In Europe, prices have dropped so much that planes are cost-competitive with buses between many neighboring countries. Part of this is because of reductions in services provided to basic economy fares, but ultimately even similar tickets are now about 40% cheaper than they were in the 90s. It's an amazing time to travel.
- InTheArena 8y ago
  This isn’t correct - since deregulation airfare has consistently gone down - 17% over the last two decades. That trend has slowed as we basically have gotten to the point where the cost per available seat mile has really can’t get any lowere without firing half the pilots and skimping on maintainence. Airplanes are being used until they can’t fly any more. Here’s a reasonable summary http://www.aei.org/publication/the-cost-of-air-travel-in-the-us-has-been-remarkably-stable-for-the-last-decade-and-17-cheaper-than-20-years-ago/ http://www.aei.org/publication/the-cost-of-air-travel-in-the...
  - mediawatcher234 8y ago
    You should know that AEI (the source you linked) is not trustworthy on these issues. David Frum was fired by AEI for daring to say that Obamacare might be good, due to "donor pressure" (cite: Axios). (Notwithstanding the fact that some conservatives have tried to deny that's the reason AEI fired Frum) AEI uses motivated reasoning (you might call it propaganda) to achieve their goals - pro-business, pro-billionaire, anti-worker. Anyway. Take any pro-deregulation paper you read from AEI with a HUGE grain of salt. https://www.thenation.com/article/dont-cry-david-frum/ https://www.thenation.com/article/dont-cry-david-frum/ (This comment is /not/ politics - it's important to know the agenda behind sources we cite if we want to evaluate them fairly.)

Noumenon72 8y ago

It's not entirely a market decision due to earlier government regulation: baggage fees are not subject to excise tax, so if an airline could charge $5 for your ticket and $600 for your bag they would be way ahead, even if you'd rather not have checked it. https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com/2015/04/21/the-real-reason-airlines-charge-checked-bag-fees-and-its-not-what-you-think https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com/2015/04/21/the-real...

tlrobinson 8y ago

I agree, but flight search tools need to start factoring this in their price results (but it's not always simple, some budget airlines charge for large carry on bags, and the size limits vary)

InTheArena 8y ago

Air travel is still one area ironically the US is way more regulated then overseas. With the exception of two airports (if I recall correctly), airports are still government owned. It’s only been since the 1980s that carriers could fly between two separate cities without govnrnnental approval. That said, having flown a few times in India and Europe on some truest loathsome airlines, it works. Airfares are going down or are holding constant at a time when all of the other stuff - housing, health care have skyrocketed.

khuey 8y ago
Airport costs (landing fees, gate rental, etc) aren't a particularly large component of airfares though. Fuel, staff, and planes dominate.