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Flying did get much worse as "1 free checked bag" became more rare. Now everyone wants to fly with a mountain climbing backpack, and planes regularly run out of
by knorker 8y ago
Flying did get much worse as "1 free checked bag" became more rare. Now everyone wants to fly with a mountain climbing backpack, and planes regularly run out of overhead space.
No, I'm not checking my $10k in camera equipment because people aren't checking their dirty tshirts.
- xienze 8y agoI’m with you on people bringing bags onboard that are far too large for overhead storage, but the solution to that problem is airlines actually enforcing size restrictions.
- wtallis 8y agoThat's not actually a solution. The airlines have created a situation where there's an incentive for more people to bring carry-on bags than will fit in overhead storage even if all bags are within size restrictions. Stricter enforcement of the existing bag size restrictions will only slightly improve the situation. That's part of why we're starting to see a new lower class of service where you aren't allowed to bring a bag for the overhead bin.
- wepple 8y agoIt’s absolutely a solution. Even if the airlines create an incentive to bring carry-on, if there’s a reasonable limit to the number of items and size, everyone’s luggage will fit! This is how the rest of the world operates airlines.
- jacques_chester 8y agoHi, I'm from the rest of the world. This is not how airlines are operated. In many other countries you get one or two checked bags included in the ticket. A strange thing occurs as a consequence: you just board the plane, and then the plane goes. Do you do the weird not-a-queue-but-queueish-blob-of-people thing? No, because there is not a zero-sum game for overhead space. Do you do the pay-extra-to-spend-longer-in-the-hell-tube thing? No, because there is not a zero-sum game for overhead space. Do you spend 45 minutes to an hour fucking around with idiots who are trying to spit in the face of both geometry and physics and falling arse-first onto the nose of good manners? Not at all, flights are typically on the runway 15-20 minutes after the first boarding call. There is not a zero-sum game for overhead space. When I first flew in the USA I thought "something is wrong with my flight". It took me several flights to realise: this is normal here. And it's maddening.
- Al-Khwarizmi 8y agoI'm also from the rest of the world but what you are saying doesn't match my reality. In every flight I find plenty of people (myself included) that don't want to check in baggage, due to mishandling, possibility of loss, delays at the destination, and/or problems with connections. So even in airlines where you get a checked bag with the ticket, I regularly see all those things you say don't happen. Maybe it depends on which part of the rest of the world. I'm from Spain, for the record. At the Madrid airport you will see plenty of people queuing at boarding gates half an hour before they open. Most Spanish airlines even have a paid "priority boarding" option to board first, so people very much want to get into the hell tube sooner... It's true that all of this is amplified for airlines that charge for checked luggage, though, so I'd rather they don't charge even if I don't want to check in myself. Competition for overhead space gets absolutely crazy when they don't charge.
- wepple 8y agoI too am originally from the rest of the world, but currently living in the US, and agree that flying in the US is absurdly and frustratingly poorly managed. My point about carry-on is that in other countries, you are strictly limited in what you can carry-on, and thus you either have to take less stuff or get checked luggage (free or otherwise). And guess what? Everything fits and people can just walk to their seat and sit down, as you described I fail to see why the US has a system where everyone is allowed to take two giant items, and then without fail half the plane has to gate-check and it causes significant slowdowns and frustration. It’s like smacking your head into a wall repeatedly, wondering why your head hurts, and continuing. I can see why people don’t want to check; short flights for business as so much faster when you don’t have to wait for the baggage carrousel or lost luggage. But when you’ve got a 50% chance of being checked anyway, everything breaks down.
- JoeAltmaier 8y agoIt the 'tragedy of the commons'. As soon as one US airline charged separately for checked bags, their tickets looked cheaper and they got more traffic. So the others had to follow. Now its $15-$50 for a checked bag, depending on what scam the airline is doing this week and how cheap they want their ticket to appear. Its sort of like shipping was on Amazon - 1 cent for an appliance! Oh, and shipping is $50.
- s73v3r_ 8y agoIt's a solution if and only if the space allotted is enough for everyone on the plane to bring a decent sized suitcase. If not, then it's not a solution.
- wepple 8y agoThis is precisely my point. The US allows people to Carry on two giant bags, and everyone pushes the boundaries absurdly. In other countries, the carry-on limit is strictly enforced. They have metal frames to test the size of your luggage, and if it doesn’t slip in, you ain’t taking it on the plane. And a “personal item” isn’t allowed to be a second bag the size of a carry-on suitcase. If you have too much stuff, tough. Either take less crap or get checked luggage.
- knorker 8y agoI've seen planes overhead full because it's not sized to support everyone bringing the max-size bag.
- weberc2 8y agoIt became more rare because the cost to fly people (plus one free checked bag) began to exceed what people were willing to pay, so airlines pulled a lever. If this were regulated, the cost of plane tickets would go up for everyone plus overhead for compliance. Maybe that's a better deal for you, but only because the government is effectively forcing other flyers to pay your way.
- chipotle_coyote 8y agoI suspect you have the cause and effect backwards. It's not that people weren't willing to pay the cost of the included checked bag -- back when every airline did include 1 (or even 2!) free checked bags, it's not as people wanting to fly were going to travel sites and saying, "If only the cheapest flight here was $25 less than it was, I'd buy a ticket, but guess I'm stuck with Greyhound now." Instead, by not including the checked bag in the cost of the initial fare, an airline got to have a lower number in the list of ticket prices when customers checked on aggregation sites like Orbitz and Expedia, and most other airlines quickly followed.
- whyaduck 8y agoThis. It's the same reason American hotels are expanding and increasing "resort fees", and auto dealerships try to charge as much as possible for "doc fees". Businesses have essentially added their OWN taxes on transactions in order to lower the prices they advertise below what they actually charge. It's got a name: bait and switch.
- ericd 8y agoOr, if the FTC was on the ball, they might call it Deceptive Advertising.
- TylerE 8y agoUS really just needs to adapt transparent pricing laws, like most of the civilized world. Yes, I know sales tax in various jurisdictions makes it impossible, but at least make them advertise the "all in" cost including any fees.
- monksy 8y agoNo you're not check your camera equipment because airlines don't cover electronics under the plane if they're lost or damaged.
- ams6110 8y agoAnd these days they prohibit checked batteries.
- manquer 8y agoAfter the Samsung note glitch I can see where they are coming from...
- logifail 8y agoHow is this prohibition supposed to be enforced? I've recent experience of flying with checked luggage which contained multiple AA NiMH rechargable batteries, spare camera batteries, and on one occasion even a fully-charged 16000 mAh power bank.
- zaarn 8y agoXRay Machine, usually.
- logifail 8y agoAre we saying that when the hold baggage is screened then just because of a stray battery or power pack they're going to ... do what, exactly? Not carry that bag on your flight and leave the airline scrambling to reunite passenger with luggage? Page the passenger (who is almost certainly airside by that point) and try to get them to come (where?) to repack/deal with the contents? I've never heard of a facility where an airside passenger can temporarily get access to hold baggage once it's been screened. Wouldn't the passenger and the hold bag each have to go back through the relevant screening channel after this interaction? I've checked batteries dozens of times and never give it a second thought. As it turns out, I had two sets of brand-new NiMH AAs in my checked luggage this morning.
- maxerickson 8y agoNo, I'm not checking my $10k in camera equipment because people aren't checking their dirty tshirts. This really summarizes attitudes perfectly. Except there's no need to actually label anything, no one gives a shit about other people's stuff.
- kbenson 8y agoActually, I think the problem may be that they didn't go all the way. If overhead space also cost, then it wouldn't be the scarce free resource everyone fights over. A much cheaper cost for checking small items (backpack, over the shoulder bag) and very close to parity with checked items (maybe above, maybe below) for suitcase sized items would likely solve the problem. A slight reduction in fees for checked bags would also be warranted. Once everything is accurately priced and tracked, there's no problem with space anymore. They know how many cubic feet of space they have, and they know what they've charged for.
- azernik 8y agoAt that point you're starting to deal with some serious transaction costs.
- kbenson 8y agoDo you really think so? I imagine a $100 ticket would go to something like $97, and there might be a $5 fee for a small overhead space (regular size purse), $10, for a medium space (backpack or large purse), and $15-$20 for small luggage, and then going up steeply from there (since you should be checking things that size). Checked baggage prices might drop by $5 or so too, since they aren't subsidizing free overhead space. Free additionals that have direct cost to the the provider but may or may not be useful or utilized by the customer are things for luxury products. Overall, everyone is better off (even if they don't feel better off) by paying for what they actually use. The people that lose out are the people that used to use more than their fair share. If you still like the idea of paying one (higher) price and having things like luggage covered, that's what other classes (like premium economy, business and first class) are for. It's called economy class for a reason...
- azernik 8y agoI'm talking about "transaction costs" in the economics sense - the cost to the company of tracking who's paid for what, to the customer of comparing complex pricing schemes, etc.
- chrisseaton 8y ago> Flying did get much worse as "1 free checked bag" became more rare. Where is this rare? I have never bought an airline ticket, even in bare-bones economy, flying for business or leisure, with and without status, and not got an included checked bag. This is flying British Airways, United, Lufthansa, Delta, American, Japan, etc etc
- tomjakubowski 8y agoSouthwest is the only major US airline who does not normally charge for a checked bag in economy on domestic flights. Other airlines: Alaska ($25), Allegiant (up to $35), American ($35), Delta ($30), Frontier ($25), Hawaiian ($25), JetBlue ($30), Spirit ($30), United ($30). Spirit, at least, does the right thing and charges $5 more to carry a typical bag onboard.
- chrisseaton 8y agoMaybe it's because all my flights are international, or domestic connections to international, then.
- azernik 8y agoYup! You can't get away with that in the international market.
- Larrikin 8y agoInternational flights are the only fights with sane pricing in the US now. What's even better is that you can avoid the slight nickel and diming they've begun to do by exclusively using international carriers. I remember being blown away by the service I got on Singapore and Malaysia Airlines. Great food, decent amount of leg room, flight attendants that don't have complete and utter contempt for everyone that isn't in Business class or above, and free alcohol. That is until I realized they weren't that special, the North American companies were just significantly worse at pretty much all aspects of the flying experience. Often times the North American companies with their fees aren't even saving you much money, or none at all if you plan well, so its an easy choice when your flight is at least 12 hours. The dream would be to have them compete and operate domestic flights as well. It would be great to go from Chicago to Dulles on ANA instead of United.
- ams6110 8y agoIn my recent flights, the time spent on getting carry-on baggage stowed properly before departure is what makes it a mystery to me that airlines aren't offering free checked baggage and charging for carry-ons.
- Stranger43 8y agoIt actually common on European short haul for the company to “offer” to stove carryon in the hold at the gate at least from what I have personally seen.
- dorchadas 8y agoYep. And if you get lucky, the people at RyanAir won't measure/weigh it if you volunteer when they ask. Means you can often get by even if you're over their limits, though it varies by airport I think.
- TylerE 8y agoHold space is actually a limited commodity.
- wenc 8y agoI have the opposite experience. I never want to check my bags because waiting around at the carousel for a checked bag isn't my idea of a good time. I want to be able to just walk off the plane and get to ground transportation with minimal delays. Yet airlines keep offering me free baggage check at the gate on full flights. I actively try to avoid checking my bags, but I'm usually in boarding Group 3 or 4, so I'm forced to have my bag gate-checked. I hate it. Most people do. Some even try to untag their force-checked bags on the jetway when they see overhead luggage space, and then get told off because that is prohibited. I've resorted to buying an AmazonBasics underseat bag[1] so I never have to check my bag. For domestic flights, in my experience few people want to check their bags. (exceptions exist of course, like in your case) For international flights, checking bags is included in the cost of the ticket. [1] https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Amazon161214-Underseat-Luggage-Black/dp/B071G2D5MM/ https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Amazon161214-Underseat-L...
- dominotw 8y ago> I'm usually in boarding Group 3 or 4 Me too. Is this determined by just price of the ticket. I don't get how I am always group 4.
- whorleater 8y agoAt least for the major US airlines (Delta, United, AA): - Group 0/pre-boarding is active military, disabled, and infants - Group 1 is first class & mileage club people - Group 2 is business class - Group 3/4 is usually economy - Group 5 is usually the cheapest basic economy people You can usually get bumped up to Group 2 by getting the airline's credit card or having a bunch of miles
- gesman 8y agoYou can just walk in after business class and they’ll let you in without hassling about you getting ahead of your next-to-toilet class. Guaranteed overhead. Lol
- 8y ago
- maximente 8y agoone hack you can use in the US (admittedly with a lot of overhead) if you're worried about tampering with checked bags, loss etc. is to check in a firearm inside of a particular bag with other expensive goods. the requirements (law) specifically states that only YOU may carry the opening mechanism for the case, and it must be a hard case. sure they might ask you to open it, but it will be tracked with great vigor, must be in a hard case, and only you can open it.
- wingspar 8y agoStarter pistols can be used too instead of a ‘real’ gun. At the destination they keep the bag secure for you to pickup, no getting it off the baggage carousels. Of course some destinations won’t let you have a gun...
- heelix 8y agoAmmo works too. Worked at a shop where they would have us transport a 1U server in a case that also held a single .22 round. You would fly to the location, pick up the server, and hand the bullet to the person working the desk to discard. Got the occasional dirty look, but prototypes were never lost. Empty case could be checked on the way home.
- wl 8y agoThat helps protect your baggage from theft; it doesn't protect your baggage from damage.
- zkms 8y agoThat's what the Pelican case (with a serious padlock on it) is for.
- anticensor 8y agoTSA (or equivalent travel agencies) can force that locked hard case to be just large enough to cover the arm and its ammunition and not all the baggage.
- burlesona 8y agoIn the US at least, you could just fly Southwest and not have to worry about it :)
- trumped 8y agoI don't really care what's in my luggage or how much it cost to check a bag but they the delays to get back my checked bags are killing me (when they don't loose them)... much quicker to keep everything with me.
- anonytrary 8y agoThe problem is that people insist on bringing crap like this[0] with them onboard the flight when it clearly doesn't fit. I get a slightly sadistic pleasure whenever I see a confiscated herd of these bags at the end of the jet bridge. Like, those people really thought they could bring a bag the size of their mini-fridge onto a flight? Get real, people. [0] https://www.surfdome.us/oakley_luggage_-_oakley_large_roller_luggage_-_black-115400 https://www.surfdome.us/oakley_luggage_-_oakley_large_roller...
- gambiting 8y agoI'm super confused. In EU all airlines use sizers before the gate, if whatever you want to bring on board doesn't fit into the sizer(and the bag you posted definitely wouldn't) it has to be checked in at a heavy fee. Do US airlines just don't care what you bring in board with you?
- anonytrary 8y agoThe size matters in the US, too, but that doesn't stop a dozen people from trying to get away with carrying on an oversized bag. You'll usually find anywhere from a few to a dozen bags confiscated on the boarding bridge.
- pxlpshr 8y agoI travel a lot. The problem isn't your first bag, it's that a lot of people also store their second bag in overhead which should go at their feet but they want to stretch their legs. This adds way more problems than the first bag. I'm always carry-on even with my free & priority checked bags thanks to status. For business travel, I like to move quickly through the airport. For personal travel, especially international, nothing is worse than pulling around a lot of luggage like a first-time tourist. Those pebble roads, tight commuter trains, and long step-walks in Europe can be a drag. Last month we travelled 21 days across 5 countries with just a carry-on. In both cases, the airline losing your bag is a real pain to deal with on any trip – happened a lot to me on multi-connects but much less of a problem on directs.
- 4ad 8y agoI'm in the same boat as you. I do these long trips, and also have multiple laptops and lots of camera equipment. I use a backpack for my carry-on, because that is less likely to be checked/gate checked, but even that is a problem because now airlines reduced the weight limit of carry on items and started aggressively enforcing this. There is simply no way my photo equipment will weigh less than 8kg. Impossible. What the hell am I supposed to do? I would gladly pay money if they allowed me the usual old 23kg standard.
- exabrial 8y agoIronically this is cutting into airline revenue as gate time increases. Southwest makes it a point to reduce time at the gate as much as possible by herding people onto the plane in a stampede, and part of that is making sure what put their bags below the plane by offering two checked bags free. Market forces will eventually balance this out for the the other airlines since SW intentionally tries to avoid routes served by other major airlines
- exabrial 8y agoYou could also pay for a premium ticket and board early to protect your very expensive equipment. Sure the extra $25-$100 wouldn't be a huge burden compared to the $10k of your equipment.
- vardump 8y ago$10k is not even very expensive yet. It's approximately just a camera body and a few lenses. Regardless, paying extra $50-$100 on every flight sounds unreasonably high. $10-20 would be more reasonable.
- evilduck 8y agoYou're missing the point. Nobody cares about the value of your bag.
- knorker 8y agoCan I? I show up extra early when I can (e.g. not a connecting flight) to make sure my carry-on is not bumped, but the only way to not have to worry about this is flying business, and that's more like a few thousand dollars extra, for cross-atlantic. I may pay $25-$100 more. But not $3000.
- exabrial 8y agoyeah... I frequently fly with guitars. On Southwest, you can pay for early-bird check-in and get a nearly guaranteed A boarding spot. On American and United, you can pay $15 for early boarding. For international and generally on anything larger than a 767, overhead compartment space is rarely an issue.
- macspoofing 8y ago>Flying did get much worse as "1 free checked bag" became more rare. I disagree. It got cheaper and some of the price savings came as a result of removing the old perks(which are still there, but you have to pay for them separately). By the way, checked baggage was never free. There was always a hidden cost that was not reflected in the ticket price. >Now everyone wants to fly with a mountain climbing backpack Airlines have gotten better at designing and running routes in such a way that the airplane is as full as it can be. Also after regulations were relaxed airlines now use the hub-spoke model instead of being forced to do direct flights between two small-markets (and thereby making ticket more expensive), which results in, again, full airplanes. Years ago there was a good chance that at any given time I would fly in a half-empty plane, now it rarely happens. I think this is what you're noticing. > I'm not checking my $10k in camera equipment because people aren't checking their dirty tshirts. Occasionally I travel with expensive equipment (e.g. I have a high-end mini-PC) and in those cases I opt to pay $20 for zone 1/2 priority boarding so that I put my stuff in the overhead compartment ahead of zone 3/4/5 masses and therefore limit the risk of having it gate-checked. I like that I am able to make that choice, as opposed to not having the choice.