9 ms·

High Crime in the Cocaine Industry

56 points by lermontov 8y ago

monotone666 8y ago
Pure cocaine is a peaceful subtle drug. The product produced by cartels, even at 90% purity is cut with amphetamines, bath salts, and other gross drugs. Pure cocaine is habit forming but the cravings seem to be more of a daily than a hourly thing, which is the case with cut products. If you do cocaine you can practice harm reduction by washing in acetone, and if you have it available, cloraform. “Pink cocaine” available on the dark net has been washed using the above methods, then cut with b vitamins.
- bluedino 8y ago
  It’s amazing That people will stick things up their nose that have been polluted by every drug dealer who has touched it on its journey to them. Who knows what could be in there.
  - bcOpus 8y ago
    They’re already snorting one of the more famously addictive drugs that does quite a number on your cardiovascular system, they’ve already demonstrated a lack of judgement. If they snort a lot of cocaine on a regular basis, then like a heroin addict they’re desperate to get high and would happily snort borax if it had a little coke in it. Of all the drugs out there the ones to really avoid are the ones that are powerfully physically addictive, and offer little therapeutic benefit: cocaine, heroin, meth. They’re just bad news, and at best you get away clean, at worst your life is wrecked. It’s not like pot or mushrooms or even responsible acid use, some drugs are just best avoided. Having said that I’m against prohibition, but people should fucking avoid coke. Or as is popular, TL;DR “who knows what could be in there.” They already know it has cocaine in it!
  - arountheworld 8y ago
    This is the environment governments create and also proves it is in human nature. It would be like banning sex and then be amazed how much STD are around.
- fiblye 8y ago
  >If you do cocaine you can practice harm reduction by washing in acetone, and if you have it available, cloraform. I'm gonna be real with you. A product that's washed like that, especially by an amateur at home (e.g. you or me) doesn't sound like something I want to sniff up into my nose.
  - fromthestart 8y ago
    Acetone and chloroform are both extremely volatile and rapidly evaporate leaving no residue. In fact in the lab people use acetone to help dry glassware of water. There's nothing dangerous here.
    - newnewpdro 8y ago
      Maybe if you get pure acetone like a lab would. The acetone I've had experience using from auto parts and hardware stores definitely leaves streaks on glass and clothes smelling of chemicals.
      - selectodude 8y ago
        And if you use that, you’ll pour all your cocaine down the drain. You need the 100 percent pure anhydrous stuff. They don’t sell that at the hardware store.
  - dreamcompiler 8y ago
    Acetone is not something you should purposely expose yourself to but it is also not an especially dangerous substance. The human body produces small amounts of it during normal metabolism; more if you're diabetic or drink a lot of alcohol.
- 55555 8y ago
  I have used pure cocaine (presumably, as I was in colombia) and I disagree. It probably depends on the individual and dosage. For me, the main effect of cocaine is wanting more cocaine. It's not even an enjoyable high outside of a purely how-much-dopamine-is-in-my-brain definition.
  - kbenson 8y ago
    > For me, the main effect of cocaine is wanting more cocaine. From my limited exposure, that's pretty much a given. > It's not even an enjoyable high outside of a purely how-much-dopamine-is-in-my-brain definition. Is that a note on your views on cocaine in general, or as a difference to what is generally available (non-pure)?
    - 55555 8y ago
      The poster I am replying to is stating that pure cocaine is a great drug. I am disagreeing. YMMV
      - DoreenMichele 8y ago
        From what I have read, the original delivery mechanism for cocaine was chewing on the leaves of the coca plant. In that form, it's quite mild. Extract from the coca plant has medicinal uses. From that perspective, it absolutely is a good drug. (Coca Cola contains extracts from the coca plant, minus the hallucinogen called cocaine.) Pure cocaine is almost certainly the mild, inoffensive drug described above. It only becomes an aggressive and problematic thing with much modern processing.
        marcoperaza 8y ago
        OP is clearly not talking about chewing coca leaves. He is talking about pure vs. impure powdered cocaine. Maybe chewing coca leaves is healthy, maybe it's not; I don't know. But it's not really relevant to a discussion about cocaine, the powdered street drug. One barely exists outside of a handful of Andean countries, the other is a worldwide health catastrophe.
- marcoperaza 8y ago
  Tell yourself whatever you want, but the awful cardiovascular and neurological effects of cocaine are well-documented and their mechanisms are well-understood. Impurities and adulterations don't make things better, but cocaine itself is awful for you.
  - newnewpdro 8y ago
    What little experience I've had with cocaine just left me with the impression that it's like caffeine turned up to 11. This changed my views on both caffeine and cocaine. I now see caffeine and caffeinated beverages as more problematic, habbit-forming stimulants which I avoid consuming far more than prior to the "my newly rich friends discovered cocaine" phase. And cocaine as a largely overhyped, relatively benign (for an illegal drug with such a reputation) but habit-forming substance made desirable by the media, and expensive by scarcity the war on drugs creates. They're more similar than they are different, and it seems absurd to me that one is legal while the other isn't.
    - nkozyra 8y ago
      But cocaine isn't just caffeine dialed up to 11. The legality of one versus the other has to do more with cocaine's far greater acute and long term health risks when consumed at levels that provide effect.
      - barry-cotter 8y ago
        If the normal way of consuming caffeine was snorting a powder that was mostly the pharmaceutically active conpund and bulking agents they’d look reasonably similar. If cocaine was available legally as tea or as powder but taxed much higher there’d be a lot of coca tea drinkers who wouldn’t touch the powder. The dose, and the delivery method, make the poison.
        nkozyra 8y ago
        That's why I specifically wrote to the point of effect. You can snort caffeine to the point of effect and healthy individuals will be fine. The distinction between compounds goes far beyond dosage and delivery mechanism.
- JudasGoat 8y ago
  Since Ether was made difficult to get in the 1990's, producers have been using nastier drying agents. As someone that had done the stuff made with Ether, the present quality is shite.
poisonarena 8y ago
Who ever wrote this article spelled Colombia wrong 4 times
- mahesh_rm 8y ago
  And spelled plata (money) as plato (dish). Also, was grossly off with prices of cocaine paste sourced from fields (it's actually less than half of reported price of 3k kilo). And about the fact you can easily buy it at the source without running into big issues, as in: almost certain death.
  - 55555 8y ago
    I paid like 3 dollars for a single gram in Medellin and I'm a dumb foreigner who speaks no spanish so the field price should be like 1000 dollars a kilo or less
    - bfuller 8y ago
      You are the same person claiming to have used "pure cocaine" because it was in Colombia. Your product was cut, which is why it was so cheap. Pure cocaine easily turns into an oil so socially consumable amounts almost have to be cut to use efficiently.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
tango24 8y ago
> One aircraft was being pursued over Homestead, Florida in 1994, so ditched its cargo. A 34-kilogram bag of cocaine fell directly into a back yard where chief of police Curt Ivy was chatting with the Neighborhood Crime Watch about what to look out for in their quiet community. Well that is ironic.
kneel 8y ago
Cocaine is a terrible drug that can severely alter one's personality. Most people turn into self centered twats. One of the most addictive substances known, legalization, acceptance and wide use could have drastic effects on society. Apparently some have already forgotten about the crack epidemic of the 90s. Many cities are still dealing with the crack generation offspring and the mentally ill crackheads from that era.
- ckosidows 8y ago
  Do you have a source that proves people become self centered or is that anecdotal? I know people who have done cocaine and they haven't drastically changed because of it.
  - dbuder 8y ago
    As someone who deals with cokeheads every week I think it attracts self centered people and enhances that trait.
- geekone 8y ago
  I don't think legalization would be a bad thing. Our current opioid epidemic is pretty equally driven by legal and illegal abuse. Acceptance and wide use seems unrelated to legal status.
- woah 8y ago
  Was the crack epidemic in the 90s caused by legal cocaine?
- JamesBarney 8y ago
  Crack and cocaine are different. Route of administration has an enormous impact on addictiveness. While cigarettes are pretty addictive, a nicotine pill wouldn't be at all.
- stephengillie 8y ago
  It says a lot about the state of HN's community that this post is poorly received, while posts supporting cocaine use are seeing more support. This used to be a techie playground; between comments in the heroin thread yesterday[∆] and in this thread today, now HN seems like a druggie haven. [∆]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18193884 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18193884
tcj_phx 8y ago
Cocaine is a sort of anti-depressant. When used as unrefined coca leaf, it's relatively safe. Three Catholic Popes have partaken of coca leaf tea on visits to South America [0] -- it helps people deal with altitude sickness while they adapt. Coca leaf extract was used in the original Coca-Cola formula. The stimulant was removed in 1903 [1], leaving just the coca leaf flavoring and some of the plant's other beneficial compounds. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/09/its-not-cocaine-what-you-need-to-know-about-the-popes-coca-drink https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/09/its-not-cocain... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coca-Cola#Coca_%E2%80%93_cocaine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coca-Cola#Coca_%E2%80%93_cocai... There are drugs that are mood-elevating substances sort-of similar to cocaine, but without the euphoria and crash. They are available as prescriptions and in the market (slightly less pure, but good enough for my dog). This class of drugs mostly fell out of favor as their patents expired and the drug industry came out with newer patent-protected generations of drugs. I met a fellow who tried cocaine in college. He said, "been there, done that, don't need to use again". People who get hooked on cocaine are those who are severely depressed -- they like cocaine because it helps them feel normal. I've never used cocaine myself, but I've watched the use crack cocaine. Too much makes the user temporarily psychotic, which is why it's now an illegal substance. I learned from a Hacker News comment/submission a while ago that cocaine causes its harm by shredding the mitochondria. [searching] Ahh, found it, this one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10956058 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10956058
- cik2e 8y ago
  "been there, done that, don't need to use again" Agree with this sentiment. I have a super addictive personality but the diminishing returns are so extreme that after an hour or two it's just a waste of time. I've never really understood how people can develop a problem with coke given how expensive it is.
  - pimeys 8y ago
    The loop works like this: you start drinking, you get drunk, too drunk to drink more so you buy cocaine, happily drinking and doing cocaine until the next day. It goes hand in hand with alcohol and if you're developing a problem with booze it's easy to continue with cocaine.
stephengillie 8y ago
> Because more than 500 kilograms of leaves are needed for just one kilogram of cocaine, requiring almost two hectares, vast plantations are essential for production in any serious volume... How much water does it take to produce a kilo? This seems like a much less environmentally-friendly vice than cannabis or even tobacco.
- toomanybeersies 8y ago
  It's generally grown in South American rain forests, I would imagine they don't use irrigation, so the water requirement is irrelevant.
  - stephengillie 8y ago
    Not irrelevant, just not tracked. In a Bayesian sense, we're using water, but we don't know how much.
anon269736 8y ago
I get angry whenever people tell me they have had cocaine at a festival, club or else. For a supposedly educated upper middle class person, this is the most irresponsible thing you could do when considering the well-being of others. And I'm all for smoking some weed when it comes from a friend's backyard. But cocaine always has blood and human exploitation on it. The kid who got shot in the bad part of town (happens nearly every day in my city), or Mexican found decapitated at the side of the road. You finance cocaine, you might as well finance child trafficking!
jrochkind1 8y ago
The illegal economy is a huge part of the overall economy (nationally or globally). We would benefit from more economic research into it, although there are obvious challenges to doing such research. But I liked this article.

56 points by lermontov 8y ago

Pure cocaine is a peaceful subtle drug. The product produced by cartels, even at 90% purity is cut with amphetamines, bath salts, and other gross drugs. Pure cocaine is habit forming but the cravings seem to be more of a daily than a hourly thing, which is the case with cut products. If you do cocaine you can practice harm reduction by washing in acetone, and if you have it available, cloraform. “Pink cocaine” available on the dark net has been washed using the above methods, then cut with b vitamins.

bluedino 8y ago
It’s amazing That people will stick things up their nose that have been polluted by every drug dealer who has touched it on its journey to them. Who knows what could be in there.
- bcOpus 8y ago
  They’re already snorting one of the more famously addictive drugs that does quite a number on your cardiovascular system, they’ve already demonstrated a lack of judgement. If they snort a lot of cocaine on a regular basis, then like a heroin addict they’re desperate to get high and would happily snort borax if it had a little coke in it. Of all the drugs out there the ones to really avoid are the ones that are powerfully physically addictive, and offer little therapeutic benefit: cocaine, heroin, meth. They’re just bad news, and at best you get away clean, at worst your life is wrecked. It’s not like pot or mushrooms or even responsible acid use, some drugs are just best avoided. Having said that I’m against prohibition, but people should fucking avoid coke. Or as is popular, TL;DR “who knows what could be in there.” They already know it has cocaine in it!
- arountheworld 8y ago
  This is the environment governments create and also proves it is in human nature. It would be like banning sex and then be amazed how much STD are around.
fiblye 8y ago
>If you do cocaine you can practice harm reduction by washing in acetone, and if you have it available, cloraform. I'm gonna be real with you. A product that's washed like that, especially by an amateur at home (e.g. you or me) doesn't sound like something I want to sniff up into my nose.
- fromthestart 8y ago
  Acetone and chloroform are both extremely volatile and rapidly evaporate leaving no residue. In fact in the lab people use acetone to help dry glassware of water. There's nothing dangerous here.
  - newnewpdro 8y ago
    Maybe if you get pure acetone like a lab would. The acetone I've had experience using from auto parts and hardware stores definitely leaves streaks on glass and clothes smelling of chemicals.
    - selectodude 8y ago
      And if you use that, you’ll pour all your cocaine down the drain. You need the 100 percent pure anhydrous stuff. They don’t sell that at the hardware store.
- dreamcompiler 8y ago
  Acetone is not something you should purposely expose yourself to but it is also not an especially dangerous substance. The human body produces small amounts of it during normal metabolism; more if you're diabetic or drink a lot of alcohol.
55555 8y ago
I have used pure cocaine (presumably, as I was in colombia) and I disagree. It probably depends on the individual and dosage. For me, the main effect of cocaine is wanting more cocaine. It's not even an enjoyable high outside of a purely how-much-dopamine-is-in-my-brain definition.
- kbenson 8y ago
  > For me, the main effect of cocaine is wanting more cocaine. From my limited exposure, that's pretty much a given. > It's not even an enjoyable high outside of a purely how-much-dopamine-is-in-my-brain definition. Is that a note on your views on cocaine in general, or as a difference to what is generally available (non-pure)?
  - 55555 8y ago
    The poster I am replying to is stating that pure cocaine is a great drug. I am disagreeing. YMMV
    - DoreenMichele 8y ago
      From what I have read, the original delivery mechanism for cocaine was chewing on the leaves of the coca plant. In that form, it's quite mild. Extract from the coca plant has medicinal uses. From that perspective, it absolutely is a good drug. (Coca Cola contains extracts from the coca plant, minus the hallucinogen called cocaine.) Pure cocaine is almost certainly the mild, inoffensive drug described above. It only becomes an aggressive and problematic thing with much modern processing.
      - marcoperaza 8y ago
        OP is clearly not talking about chewing coca leaves. He is talking about pure vs. impure powdered cocaine. Maybe chewing coca leaves is healthy, maybe it's not; I don't know. But it's not really relevant to a discussion about cocaine, the powdered street drug. One barely exists outside of a handful of Andean countries, the other is a worldwide health catastrophe.
marcoperaza 8y ago
Tell yourself whatever you want, but the awful cardiovascular and neurological effects of cocaine are well-documented and their mechanisms are well-understood. Impurities and adulterations don't make things better, but cocaine itself is awful for you.
- newnewpdro 8y ago
  What little experience I've had with cocaine just left me with the impression that it's like caffeine turned up to 11. This changed my views on both caffeine and cocaine. I now see caffeine and caffeinated beverages as more problematic, habbit-forming stimulants which I avoid consuming far more than prior to the "my newly rich friends discovered cocaine" phase. And cocaine as a largely overhyped, relatively benign (for an illegal drug with such a reputation) but habit-forming substance made desirable by the media, and expensive by scarcity the war on drugs creates. They're more similar than they are different, and it seems absurd to me that one is legal while the other isn't.
  - nkozyra 8y ago
    But cocaine isn't just caffeine dialed up to 11. The legality of one versus the other has to do more with cocaine's far greater acute and long term health risks when consumed at levels that provide effect.
    - barry-cotter 8y ago
      If the normal way of consuming caffeine was snorting a powder that was mostly the pharmaceutically active conpund and bulking agents they’d look reasonably similar. If cocaine was available legally as tea or as powder but taxed much higher there’d be a lot of coca tea drinkers who wouldn’t touch the powder. The dose, and the delivery method, make the poison.
      - nkozyra 8y ago
        That's why I specifically wrote to the point of effect. You can snort caffeine to the point of effect and healthy individuals will be fine. The distinction between compounds goes far beyond dosage and delivery mechanism.
JudasGoat 8y ago
Since Ether was made difficult to get in the 1990's, producers have been using nastier drying agents. As someone that had done the stuff made with Ether, the present quality is shite.

poisonarena 8y ago

Who ever wrote this article spelled Colombia wrong 4 times

mahesh_rm 8y ago
And spelled plata (money) as plato (dish). Also, was grossly off with prices of cocaine paste sourced from fields (it's actually less than half of reported price of 3k kilo). And about the fact you can easily buy it at the source without running into big issues, as in: almost certain death.
- 55555 8y ago
  I paid like 3 dollars for a single gram in Medellin and I'm a dumb foreigner who speaks no spanish so the field price should be like 1000 dollars a kilo or less
  - bfuller 8y ago
    You are the same person claiming to have used "pure cocaine" because it was in Colombia. Your product was cut, which is why it was so cheap. Pure cocaine easily turns into an oil so socially consumable amounts almost have to be cut to use efficiently.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]

tango24 8y ago

> One aircraft was being pursued over Homestead, Florida in 1994, so ditched its cargo. A 34-kilogram bag of cocaine fell directly into a back yard where chief of police Curt Ivy was chatting with the Neighborhood Crime Watch about what to look out for in their quiet community. Well that is ironic.

kneel 8y ago

Cocaine is a terrible drug that can severely alter one's personality. Most people turn into self centered twats. One of the most addictive substances known, legalization, acceptance and wide use could have drastic effects on society. Apparently some have already forgotten about the crack epidemic of the 90s. Many cities are still dealing with the crack generation offspring and the mentally ill crackheads from that era.

ckosidows 8y ago
Do you have a source that proves people become self centered or is that anecdotal? I know people who have done cocaine and they haven't drastically changed because of it.
- dbuder 8y ago
  As someone who deals with cokeheads every week I think it attracts self centered people and enhances that trait.
geekone 8y ago
I don't think legalization would be a bad thing. Our current opioid epidemic is pretty equally driven by legal and illegal abuse. Acceptance and wide use seems unrelated to legal status.
woah 8y ago
Was the crack epidemic in the 90s caused by legal cocaine?
JamesBarney 8y ago
Crack and cocaine are different. Route of administration has an enormous impact on addictiveness. While cigarettes are pretty addictive, a nicotine pill wouldn't be at all.
stephengillie 8y ago
It says a lot about the state of HN's community that this post is poorly received, while posts supporting cocaine use are seeing more support. This used to be a techie playground; between comments in the heroin thread yesterday[∆] and in this thread today, now HN seems like a druggie haven. [∆]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18193884 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18193884

tcj_phx 8y ago

Cocaine is a sort of anti-depressant. When used as unrefined coca leaf, it's relatively safe. Three Catholic Popes have partaken of coca leaf tea on visits to South America [0] -- it helps people deal with altitude sickness while they adapt. Coca leaf extract was used in the original Coca-Cola formula. The stimulant was removed in 1903 [1], leaving just the coca leaf flavoring and some of the plant's other beneficial compounds. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/09/its-not-cocaine-what-you-need-to-know-about-the-popes-coca-drink https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/09/its-not-cocain... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coca-Cola#Coca_%E2%80%93_cocaine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coca-Cola#Coca_%E2%80%93_cocai... There are drugs that are mood-elevating substances sort-of similar to cocaine, but without the euphoria and crash. They are available as prescriptions and in the market (slightly less pure, but good enough for my dog). This class of drugs mostly fell out of favor as their patents expired and the drug industry came out with newer patent-protected generations of drugs. I met a fellow who tried cocaine in college. He said, "been there, done that, don't need to use again". People who get hooked on cocaine are those who are severely depressed -- they like cocaine because it helps them feel normal. I've never used cocaine myself, but I've watched the use crack cocaine. Too much makes the user temporarily psychotic, which is why it's now an illegal substance. I learned from a Hacker News comment/submission a while ago that cocaine causes its harm by shredding the mitochondria. [searching] Ahh, found it, this one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10956058 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10956058

cik2e 8y ago
"been there, done that, don't need to use again" Agree with this sentiment. I have a super addictive personality but the diminishing returns are so extreme that after an hour or two it's just a waste of time. I've never really understood how people can develop a problem with coke given how expensive it is.
- pimeys 8y ago
  The loop works like this: you start drinking, you get drunk, too drunk to drink more so you buy cocaine, happily drinking and doing cocaine until the next day. It goes hand in hand with alcohol and if you're developing a problem with booze it's easy to continue with cocaine.

stephengillie 8y ago

> Because more than 500 kilograms of leaves are needed for just one kilogram of cocaine, requiring almost two hectares, vast plantations are essential for production in any serious volume... How much water does it take to produce a kilo? This seems like a much less environmentally-friendly vice than cannabis or even tobacco.

toomanybeersies 8y ago
It's generally grown in South American rain forests, I would imagine they don't use irrigation, so the water requirement is irrelevant.
- stephengillie 8y ago
  Not irrelevant, just not tracked. In a Bayesian sense, we're using water, but we don't know how much.

anon269736 8y ago

I get angry whenever people tell me they have had cocaine at a festival, club or else. For a supposedly educated upper middle class person, this is the most irresponsible thing you could do when considering the well-being of others. And I'm all for smoking some weed when it comes from a friend's backyard. But cocaine always has blood and human exploitation on it. The kid who got shot in the bad part of town (happens nearly every day in my city), or Mexican found decapitated at the side of the road. You finance cocaine, you might as well finance child trafficking!

jrochkind1 8y ago

The illegal economy is a huge part of the overall economy (nationally or globally). We would benefit from more economic research into it, although there are obvious challenges to doing such research. But I liked this article.