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If math is invented, math is the union of thought, in relation to an objective measurement of reality, because the language expresses consistent and testable tr

If math is invented, math is the union of thought, in relation to an objective measurement of reality, because the language expresses consistent and testable truths that can be observed and measured. If math is discovered, math is the reality, that is tested against itself. As for thought patterns and special ways of thinking - there's nothing wrong with nurturing an interest. I think any thought patterns that exaggerate or minimize one's ability in math simply get in the way of doing math, eventually. Pure mathematics is done for itself. Applied mathematics is done for something else. These things are so simple when they can cleanly be separated in descriptive rhetoric, but in the actual domains of math, they could not be more complicated.

thrmsforbfast 8y ago
Was this computer-generated?
- trustmath 8y ago
  Is this some variant of nerd bullying?
oldandtired 8y ago
Mathematics is invented - it is only an approximation to reality. The "truths" of mathematics are what you start with - I am finding that looking at the Metamath system is a good way to see this. It is a very useful tool in many areas but is just plain useless in others. Unfortunately, in my little opinion, there are too many people who give too much credence to the use of mathematics to discover the "truths" of the universe. They have an idealised perspective as to its efficacy instead of having a more pragmatic perspective.
- trustmath 8y ago
  I don't know if you can concretely say that mathematics is invented. Where does it come from? You observe reality, but what if reality is math? You can't say it exists outside of the realm of possibility that some people have a base observation that rests more on math than it does anything else. Your transition into pragmaticism is appropriate for your argument, but I don't know if it's appropriate for mathematics that concerns computation. The universe in the argument I am constructing would be the universe of math, not the physical universe. In that regard, I think pragmaticism can still be held as a primary value that can be realistically met.
  - oldandtired 8y ago
    Where does mathematics come from? Good question. How about a not so satisfactory answer - we like to make sense of the world around us and we also have the ability to map the world around into patterns. With that, we try to put what we observe into some possibly useful form. Now those attempts at making patterns can take a number of different forms, of which one is mathematics. In the case of mathematics, we create axioms as a basic framework on which we build the various mathematical edifices that we use. We have applicable rules that are used and from that people come up with all the various fields in mathematics that exist today. However, as part of a challenge that I accepted some time ago, I am finding that everything we use in mathematics is but a map of reality and not reality itself. No matter what mathematics one uses in whatever area one uses mathematics, it is only an approximation to the reality around us. When the rubber hits the road, our mathematics often fails us. Forty years ago, one of my engineering lecturers advised all of us students at the time that though mathematics could give precise answers, reality had a penchant for not being precise at all, as in, there is much variation in the physical mediums in which we would work. Always treat all mathematical results obtained as only being approximate and design for the worst case scenario. Every map in existence is but an inaccurate description of the observable universe. From the very small to the very large, from the very simple to the very complex, mathematics gives us a possible way of inadequately describing what we see. Though, in its inadequacy, mathematics provides a means of studying and manipulating the universe around us from which we can get useful results. So we have all sorts of interesting technology and science with which we manipulate our environments. The problem I see is that there are those who attribute an unwarranted "honour" (I suppose) to mathematics without stopping and seeing its limitations and that it is a tool which we have created or invented so that we can make sense of the universe around us. Studying the Metamath system is interesting for me in that by using some very simple rules we can build all the mathematics of today. What I find interesting in your last paragraph is that you, yourself, seem to make the distinction between reality and mathematics, which would indicate, at least to me, that you recognise that it is but a tool created for a use and not something that had a pre-existence that we could discover. However, I may be completely misunderstanding your argument at this point.
    - trustmath 8y ago

thrmsforbfast 8y ago

Was this computer-generated?

trustmath 8y ago
Is this some variant of nerd bullying?

oldandtired 8y ago

Mathematics is invented - it is only an approximation to reality. The "truths" of mathematics are what you start with - I am finding that looking at the Metamath system is a good way to see this. It is a very useful tool in many areas but is just plain useless in others. Unfortunately, in my little opinion, there are too many people who give too much credence to the use of mathematics to discover the "truths" of the universe. They have an idealised perspective as to its efficacy instead of having a more pragmatic perspective.

trustmath 8y ago
I don't know if you can concretely say that mathematics is invented. Where does it come from? You observe reality, but what if reality is math? You can't say it exists outside of the realm of possibility that some people have a base observation that rests more on math than it does anything else. Your transition into pragmaticism is appropriate for your argument, but I don't know if it's appropriate for mathematics that concerns computation. The universe in the argument I am constructing would be the universe of math, not the physical universe. In that regard, I think pragmaticism can still be held as a primary value that can be realistically met.
- oldandtired 8y ago
  Where does mathematics come from? Good question. How about a not so satisfactory answer - we like to make sense of the world around us and we also have the ability to map the world around into patterns. With that, we try to put what we observe into some possibly useful form. Now those attempts at making patterns can take a number of different forms, of which one is mathematics. In the case of mathematics, we create axioms as a basic framework on which we build the various mathematical edifices that we use. We have applicable rules that are used and from that people come up with all the various fields in mathematics that exist today. However, as part of a challenge that I accepted some time ago, I am finding that everything we use in mathematics is but a map of reality and not reality itself. No matter what mathematics one uses in whatever area one uses mathematics, it is only an approximation to the reality around us. When the rubber hits the road, our mathematics often fails us. Forty years ago, one of my engineering lecturers advised all of us students at the time that though mathematics could give precise answers, reality had a penchant for not being precise at all, as in, there is much variation in the physical mediums in which we would work. Always treat all mathematical results obtained as only being approximate and design for the worst case scenario. Every map in existence is but an inaccurate description of the observable universe. From the very small to the very large, from the very simple to the very complex, mathematics gives us a possible way of inadequately describing what we see. Though, in its inadequacy, mathematics provides a means of studying and manipulating the universe around us from which we can get useful results. So we have all sorts of interesting technology and science with which we manipulate our environments. The problem I see is that there are those who attribute an unwarranted "honour" (I suppose) to mathematics without stopping and seeing its limitations and that it is a tool which we have created or invented so that we can make sense of the universe around us. Studying the Metamath system is interesting for me in that by using some very simple rules we can build all the mathematics of today. What I find interesting in your last paragraph is that you, yourself, seem to make the distinction between reality and mathematics, which would indicate, at least to me, that you recognise that it is but a tool created for a use and not something that had a pre-existence that we could discover. However, I may be completely misunderstanding your argument at this point.
  - trustmath 8y ago