4 ms·

I suspect there's no objective way to discuss a topic while it's in the hype cycle. Mindnfulness meditation seems to have dubious benefits, the uberman sleep cy

by koube 8y ago

I suspect there's no objective way to discuss a topic while it's in the hype cycle. Mindnfulness meditation seems to have dubious benefits, the uberman sleep cycle has all but disappeared, but during their hype cycles there was no way to sit down and discuss whether they actually do anything. There were too many people singing praises and making tons of claims, and there's really no way to dispute them. The science seems to never happen on these types of things as well, so just waiting doesn't seem to be the answer either.

loceng 8y ago
The biggest problem is many of these practices are often done and discussed in relative isolation of other holistic practices.
jklinger410 8y ago
For all we've done in science, it seems like we still have a huge correlation != causation issue. I just had someone tell me that the amount of auto accidents increase between 2 and 4pm in the US. This somehow showed that people make poor decisions during that time because of our sleep cycles? I was met with much resistance when I pointed out that there are fundamentally different people driving during 2 and 4pm than 8am or 5-6pm. The numbers don't lie, right? Just how you read them... Anyway, I'd love to see the science that mindfulness and meditation have dubious benefits. I am such a believer in those practices, I have a hard time understanding the argument that they are not beneficial.
- koube 8y ago
  https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/wheres-the-proof-that-mindfulness-meditation-works1/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/wheres-the-proof-... > The new paper cites a 2015 review published in American Psychologist reporting that only around 9 percent of research into mindfulness-based interventions has been tested in clinical trials that included a control group. The authors also point to multiple large placebo-controlled meta-analyses concluding that mindfulness practices have often produced unimpressive results. A 2014 review of 47 meditation trials, collectively including over 3,500 participants, found essentially no evidence for benefits related to enhancing attention, curtailing substance abuse, aiding sleep or controlling weight. > Van Dam acknowledges that some good evidence does support mindfulness. The 2014 analysis found meditation and mindfulness may provide modest benefits in anxiety, depression and pain. He also cites a 2013 review published in Clinical Psychology Review for mindfulness-based therapy that found similar results. “The intention and scope of this review is welcome—it is looking to introduce rigor and balance into this emerging new field,” says Willem Kuyken, a professor of psychiatry at the University of Oxford in England, who was not involved in research for the new report. “There are many areas where mindfulness-based programs seem to be acceptable and promising, but larger-scale randomized, rigorous trials are needed.” >As Van Dam and his co-authors wrote, “[there is] neither one universally accepted technical definition of ‘mindfulness’ nor any broad agreement about detailed aspects of the underlying concept to which it refers.”
  - erikpukinskis 8y ago
    That’s not evidence. By your logic I could disprove general relativity just by doing bunch of flawed studies on the subject.
    - koube 8y ago
      I didn't say it was evidence, I said "Mindnfulness meditation seems to have dubious benefits", and the quoted article outlines specifically the lack of evidence around the benefits of meditation. I'm perfectly comfortable standing by this conclusion from the lack of evidence as outlined in the quoted text.

by koube 8y ago

loceng 8y ago

The biggest problem is many of these practices are often done and discussed in relative isolation of other holistic practices.

jklinger410 8y ago

For all we've done in science, it seems like we still have a huge correlation != causation issue. I just had someone tell me that the amount of auto accidents increase between 2 and 4pm in the US. This somehow showed that people make poor decisions during that time because of our sleep cycles? I was met with much resistance when I pointed out that there are fundamentally different people driving during 2 and 4pm than 8am or 5-6pm. The numbers don't lie, right? Just how you read them... Anyway, I'd love to see the science that mindfulness and meditation have dubious benefits. I am such a believer in those practices, I have a hard time understanding the argument that they are not beneficial.

koube 8y ago
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/wheres-the-proof-that-mindfulness-meditation-works1/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/wheres-the-proof-... > The new paper cites a 2015 review published in American Psychologist reporting that only around 9 percent of research into mindfulness-based interventions has been tested in clinical trials that included a control group. The authors also point to multiple large placebo-controlled meta-analyses concluding that mindfulness practices have often produced unimpressive results. A 2014 review of 47 meditation trials, collectively including over 3,500 participants, found essentially no evidence for benefits related to enhancing attention, curtailing substance abuse, aiding sleep or controlling weight. > Van Dam acknowledges that some good evidence does support mindfulness. The 2014 analysis found meditation and mindfulness may provide modest benefits in anxiety, depression and pain. He also cites a 2013 review published in Clinical Psychology Review for mindfulness-based therapy that found similar results. “The intention and scope of this review is welcome—it is looking to introduce rigor and balance into this emerging new field,” says Willem Kuyken, a professor of psychiatry at the University of Oxford in England, who was not involved in research for the new report. “There are many areas where mindfulness-based programs seem to be acceptable and promising, but larger-scale randomized, rigorous trials are needed.” >As Van Dam and his co-authors wrote, “[there is] neither one universally accepted technical definition of ‘mindfulness’ nor any broad agreement about detailed aspects of the underlying concept to which it refers.”
- erikpukinskis 8y ago
  That’s not evidence. By your logic I could disprove general relativity just by doing bunch of flawed studies on the subject.
  - koube 8y ago
    I didn't say it was evidence, I said "Mindnfulness meditation seems to have dubious benefits", and the quoted article outlines specifically the lack of evidence around the benefits of meditation. I'm perfectly comfortable standing by this conclusion from the lack of evidence as outlined in the quoted text.