6 ms·

Slightly misleading to say Angular is in decline when you group Angular 1 and 2+ together.

evv 8y ago
I understand that Angular as we know it today is basically a total re-do of AngularJS (v1), but I'm curious, how is it misleading to group them together when comparing to other frameworks?
- tashoecraft 8y ago
  They’re essentially to different frameworks. Different concepts, ideas, everything. They only share a name.
- IggleSniggle 8y ago
  New Angular is more like Vue than it is like AngularJS (v1). Old AngularJS and Angular 2+ are very, very different. For that reason, many popular AngularJS (v1) apps have not yet updated (and probably never will without a total rewrite).
  - evv 8y ago
    So, if a lot of the Angular decline is due to people migrating off of v1, and v2 isn't gaining in popularity as fast, is it really misleading to say that Angular is in decline? To me it seems that tons of Angular 1/2+ users are adopting Vue instead.
    - IggleSniggle 8y ago
      I was just answering the question of why it is misleading to group them together. The frameworks are radically different and the install base is likely very different as well. If AngularJS (v1) was growing in popularity it wouldn’t really tell you anything about Angular (v2+), in the same way that the fact that Ember seeing a slow and steady growth doesn’t tell you anything about Angular (v2+). They’re different frameworks with dramatically different conventions and install bases. If AngularJS AND Angular were both losing popularity, it would still be misleading to group them together as “Angular.” They’re just not the same thing. Choosing to name the newer framework was, in retrospect, an extremely poor choice, especially since it alienated all AngularJS users since there was no good migration path at the time and everything was so different; it might have made some sort of marketing sense in the pre-React/Vue world that Angular (v2+) began its life in.
deleted 8y ago
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ficklepickle 8y ago
He mentioned how many angry emails he gets from angular people when he did the presentation. He's not saying its less popular, all he's doing is showing the numbers npm has.
- tashoecraft 8y ago
  I totally agree it’s less popular and laughed when it showed the slide saying that. But saying it is in decline is wrong even by the graph, angular 2 is increasing and angular 1 is decreasing. So maybe because not all angular 1 sites are switching to angular 2 it’s a decline?
ubertaco 8y ago
I'm not so sure that's true. There's a library that has X number of users. The library authors release v2 of that library, and it's a total rewrite. If every single user of v1 adopted v2, then you'd still have X number of users (grouped together across v1 and v2). However, you now have X minus Y users across both -- which means that some users stopped using v1 and didn't start using v2. Which means that the adoption of your library has gone down. Or, put another way, is in decline. Now, you could make the case that Angular 1 and Angular 2 are totally different frameworks that don't have anything in common and so they should have their adoption metrics treated differently, but even Google doesn't make that distinction, since they call them both "Angular". So to say Angular usage has gone down is factually correct, according to the definition of "Angular" provided by the people who built and maintain Angular itself. To argue that the conclusion is wrong because the definitions are wrong (read: not the same as the definitions you personally use) is kinda just playing semantic games.
- tashoecraft 8y ago
  The people who built and maintain it refer to 1.x as Angularjs, and >2 as Angular. I do agree it’s silly semantics, but google does treat them as different, the community treats them as different, they are different in all terms.
STRiDEX 8y ago
I think there will be a jump again whenever ivy is ready. https://is-angular-ivy-ready.firebaseapp.com/#/status https://is-angular-ivy-ready.firebaseapp.com/#/status
- tashoecraft 8y ago
  Ivy will probably be a fully released in 8, with an optional flag enabled in 7.x
k__ 8y ago
It would also be misleading to group them together.

evv 8y ago

I understand that Angular as we know it today is basically a total re-do of AngularJS (v1), but I'm curious, how is it misleading to group them together when comparing to other frameworks?

tashoecraft 8y ago
They’re essentially to different frameworks. Different concepts, ideas, everything. They only share a name.
IggleSniggle 8y ago
New Angular is more like Vue than it is like AngularJS (v1). Old AngularJS and Angular 2+ are very, very different. For that reason, many popular AngularJS (v1) apps have not yet updated (and probably never will without a total rewrite).
- evv 8y ago
  So, if a lot of the Angular decline is due to people migrating off of v1, and v2 isn't gaining in popularity as fast, is it really misleading to say that Angular is in decline? To me it seems that tons of Angular 1/2+ users are adopting Vue instead.
  - IggleSniggle 8y ago
    I was just answering the question of why it is misleading to group them together. The frameworks are radically different and the install base is likely very different as well. If AngularJS (v1) was growing in popularity it wouldn’t really tell you anything about Angular (v2+), in the same way that the fact that Ember seeing a slow and steady growth doesn’t tell you anything about Angular (v2+). They’re different frameworks with dramatically different conventions and install bases. If AngularJS AND Angular were both losing popularity, it would still be misleading to group them together as “Angular.” They’re just not the same thing. Choosing to name the newer framework was, in retrospect, an extremely poor choice, especially since it alienated all AngularJS users since there was no good migration path at the time and everything was so different; it might have made some sort of marketing sense in the pre-React/Vue world that Angular (v2+) began its life in.

deleted 8y ago

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ficklepickle 8y ago

He mentioned how many angry emails he gets from angular people when he did the presentation. He's not saying its less popular, all he's doing is showing the numbers npm has.

tashoecraft 8y ago
I totally agree it’s less popular and laughed when it showed the slide saying that. But saying it is in decline is wrong even by the graph, angular 2 is increasing and angular 1 is decreasing. So maybe because not all angular 1 sites are switching to angular 2 it’s a decline?

ubertaco 8y ago

I'm not so sure that's true. There's a library that has X number of users. The library authors release v2 of that library, and it's a total rewrite. If every single user of v1 adopted v2, then you'd still have X number of users (grouped together across v1 and v2). However, you now have X minus Y users across both -- which means that some users stopped using v1 and didn't start using v2. Which means that the adoption of your library has gone down. Or, put another way, is in decline. Now, you could make the case that Angular 1 and Angular 2 are totally different frameworks that don't have anything in common and so they should have their adoption metrics treated differently, but even Google doesn't make that distinction, since they call them both "Angular". So to say Angular usage has gone down is factually correct, according to the definition of "Angular" provided by the people who built and maintain Angular itself. To argue that the conclusion is wrong because the definitions are wrong (read: not the same as the definitions you personally use) is kinda just playing semantic games.

tashoecraft 8y ago
The people who built and maintain it refer to 1.x as Angularjs, and >2 as Angular. I do agree it’s silly semantics, but google does treat them as different, the community treats them as different, they are different in all terms.

STRiDEX 8y ago

I think there will be a jump again whenever ivy is ready. https://is-angular-ivy-ready.firebaseapp.com/#/status https://is-angular-ivy-ready.firebaseapp.com/#/status

tashoecraft 8y ago
Ivy will probably be a fully released in 8, with an optional flag enabled in 7.x

k__ 8y ago

It would also be misleading to group them together.