7 ms·

If you stop for a minute to think about it, it's a very sad state of affairs that you need to buy a closed-source app for the most secure consumer operating sys

• big_youth 8y ago
  I stupidly chose a high end thinkpad at my job a few years ago and I am a counting the days until I can renew and get a Mac. The hardware is shit. I've had to send it to service 3 times in the nearly 3 years I've been working with it. I just put in a new up arrow key last week because the last one broke. In it's current state only one USB port is functional. Granted I'm a consultant and do heavily traveling but it has never happened to any of my colleagues Macs. Once it was in service for week because the wifi card was disconnected. Don't even get me started about running linux on it, not a nice experience. Getting home and using my mac is such an upgrade, OS and hardware wise. Only thing I really miss is the red track button in the middle of the keyboard, that is a phenomenal feature!
  • vtail 8y ago
    Sorry to hear about your troubles. When I was a consultant (and used Thinkpads heavily at work) they worked pretty reliably with a lot of abuse, although I agree that Windows is something that (for me personally) is hard to tolerate as an OS. What's interesting about OpenBSD/Thinkpad combo is that hardware support is miles better vs. Linux on the same hardware (WiFi, snooze, etc.), from what I can tell, as many of the OpenBSD developers use them as personal machines.
  • tkfu 8y ago
    Interesting; I have basically the exact opposite experience. I had a T460P (running Linux) that I loved as my work computer, and then my company got acquired and I had to choose between a gigantic brick of a Dell or a Macbook, so I decided to try a mac for a while. I absolutely hate it: the keyboard needs to be blown out with compressed air all the damn time, plugging in external monitors is a total crapshoot, the touch bar thing just sucks, having only USB-C ports is a pain, and every fuse filesystem is insanely slow.
    • twunde 8y ago
      The 2015 macbooks and earlier were great. The switch to USB-C/removal of thunderbolt AND hdmi has made using the newer macs a real pain. The older macs had much better keyboards (and better placement of the touchpad). The only nice thing about the touchbars is that they have a fingerprint reader.
      • deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      • closetohome 8y ago
        Actually they replaced Thunderbolt 2 with Thunderbolt 3, and it's better.
        • twunde 8y ago
          Do you actually have any equipment that comes with Thunderbolt3/USB-C cables? My office currently buys new hires at least one dongle plus an hdmi cord because our monitors don't come with a USB-C cable (if yours do, please let me know what you're purchasing). Wireless mice and keyboards that use the USBs need dongles. If you go into a random conference room (at work, at clients etc), many places will have hdmi cords which you used to just be able to plug in. Instead of having a laptop that "just works" it's now a pain to ensure that new hires have all the equipment they need.
          • closetohome 8y ago
  • reificator 8y ago
    > Only thing I really miss is the red track button in the middle of the keyboard, that is a phenomenal feature! Oh, are you referring to the TrackPoint™-style pointer? https://xkcd.com/243/ https://xkcd.com/243/
  • bootlooped 8y ago
    Which model was it? I have heard different model lines have vastly different quality levels. I think the T and X lines are widely considered the best. I would not consider anything outside those two lines for professional use. My T430s has been great. It sees a lot of use too.
• giosch 8y ago
  "the most secure consumer operating system" ?
  • vtail 8y ago
    Well, that’s certainly up to debate - but please note the “consumer” qualifier there. I do believe that for an average non-experienced consumer, it offers better security over Windows (fewer viruses, App Store launched earlier, etc.) I should have added “desktop” there as well, otherwise I would say iOS is the most secure consumer operating system these days.
• sanityvampire 8y ago
  I'm a fan of the X1 Carbon line; my current home laptop is a 3rd-gen that I grabbed on eBay for cheap a while back. Might leapfrog to the next model when it's released, but the "Alexa for PC" integration is kinda sketching me out. I know it's just factory-installed bloatware at this point, but I'm concerned that before long Amazon's going to be paying off OEMs for physically integrated spy hardware, and while I love my ThinkPad systems, Lenovo's willingness to include Alexa makes me nervous.
  • vtail 8y ago
    Interesting - since I'm not on Windows, I didn't know about Alexa integration. On the other hand, Lenovo seems to use hardware components with good support by open-source drivers. Hopefully one day they (or someone else) will support something like coreboot, which will create a more open system (minus microcode in the CPU).
• nobody271 8y ago
  I'm on a fresh Debian install and using a VPN. At some point I need to lock down my home router and flash the BIOS on some of my more promiscuous computers. What I would REALLY like though is a quality Linux operating system for the phone like Ubuntu Touch. I just don't feel comfortable on Android.
  • 4d66ba06 8y ago
    I'm really hoping the Librem 5 is successful - supposed to start shipping in 2019: https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/ https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/
• dstroot 8y ago
  >similar/better specs vs Macbook Pro at half the price I hear people say that and I always get excited. Then I just went to Lenovo’s site and I configured one and for a small margin on error they are the same. Why do people say this when it doesn’t seem true? Is there a “50% Off all Thinkpads” website I don’t know about?
  • vtail 8y ago
    I configured ThinkPad using Employee Perks website at work (many places have something like this), and got a 27% discount from the list price, which is only 2% higher discount vs. the promotion they have been running recently (thinkx25 discount code). I configured a machine with i7-8550U cpu (8th gen, 1.80Ghz, 8MB cache, up to 4Ghz Turbo boost), 14" WQHD (2560x1440) IPS anti-glare panel @ 300 nits, 16gb LPDDR3 2133mhz, 720p HD camera, integrated UHD graphics 620, and 256 GB PCIe-nvme hard drive for $1,396.47 before tax. I'm comparing it to a 15" macbook pro at $2,400 before tax (and it has DDR4 - so hungrier - memory).
    • vtail 8y ago
      You can argue it's not a fair comparison, 15" Macbook Pros have a 6-core CPUs and a standalone GPU, and a 13-inch Macbook Pro with 8th-gen Intel core i5 and 16GB (which can be configured at $1,999 before tax) is a better one - either way Thinkpad is a better deal, and it's a very light laptop (only ~2 lbs).
    • heyoni 8y ago
      Yea it’s ddr4 with a dedicated graphics card, probably has a better screen. You saved some money by downgrading. Go spec an actual MacBook Pro, I promise you it’s at least $2000.
  • zumu 8y ago
    They have sales and the components are upgradable. I got a monster of a machine 2 years ago for < $1100, by buying during a 35% off sale and getting the SSD aftermarket.
    • 8y ago
• xoa 8y ago
  >If you stop for a minute to think about it, it's a very sad state of affairs that you need to buy a closed-source app for the most secure consumer operating system, and pay constant attention to its status, in hope to avoid (or detect) spying. Emphasis added, because of course you don't need to, and most people don't. Apple themselves have been working at it and Mojave contains a bunch of new restrictions and brings more visibility to what software wants what. It's much more feasible now for users to simply prevent most (or all) standard software from accessing the camera or mic entirely. Someone could be very cautious about what they install and stick to more heavily controlled and sandboxed major name stuff from the MAS (even though I personally think the MAS is a huge disappointment and waste of potential still). Running software in a VM is another option for power users. And for that matter if you don't actually use the camera much/ever (likely true for many on HN) you could simply physically block it with an opaque black sticker, or even drill it out and stick some black epoxy in there or similar. Ultimately this is just another possible layer and UX. If anything it is probably of most value to power users who want to run software from anywhere and in turn would like to have additional tools to handle some of the vetting and watching that Apple might do for general users with light needs. That's like Little Snitch too, I find it absolutely invaluable, but I also have the basic systems and networking knowledge for it to mean something to me. For end users I help it's of no direct use because it all might as well be in another language, they don't have the knowledge or metaknowledge, it's only any good in terms of providing an administrator willing to take an active hand in things occasionally another way to help lock systems down. I do hope for Apple to continue their trend of privacy focus, for example they could make camera access more nuanced (like only if it has user focus). But I have more faith in their ability to make that functional for general end user contexts then in many server secure focused OS. To your point: >(works flawlessly with Thinkpad's hardware (minus bluetooth and -finger scanner-) and... But biometrics are incredibly value for general mobile usage security. Shoulder surfing these days should probably be considered the rule not the exception given the growing ubiquity of networked cameras everywhere and the data storage capacity and ML to handle their data. It's much easier to passively mass vacuum PINs or passwords then good biometrics right now where you can't ensure any physical security. OpenBSD does support HSMs which would help, though it's another thing to keep on hand as well. And of course there is the time factor of a good password vs biometric entry which discourages many people from using good passwords.
• plainOldText 8y ago
  That's a questionable approach you took, since Lenovo has been caught in the past shipping laptops with spyware. I actually bought the same Thinkpad a few months ago (beautiful machine btw), but I had to return it as I couldn't get myself to trust a computer manufactured by a dishonest company, in an authoritarian country. It felt just so uncomfortable. At the end of the day, I still trust Apple the most, since they have a huge reputation they need to maintain, although I recognize it's not an optimal solution, as they might very well have weaknesses in their supply chain, or become dishonest at the request of some higher authority. On a related note, it appears we don't live in the era of personal computers anymore, but rather personal interfaces. Most people are comfortable getting a mobile interface they control, while the computation and storage of their data is performed by somebody else.
  • vtail 8y ago
    > since Lenovo has been caught in the past shipping laptops with spyware Are you referring to [1]? Since I will be installing OpenBSD on this machine, I won't be affected by it. I do have to trust their BIOS, though, and unfortunately there is no easy way around it on modern hardware, unless you want to limit yourself to something supported by e.g. coreboot. > manufactured by a dishonest company, in an authoritarian country Macbooks are manufactured in the same country, but yes, I do understand your sentiment re: "dishonest" company - very few Chinese manufacturers can be fully trusted, as e.g. Chinese government has a lot of coercion power. [1] https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/ThinkPad-S-Series-ThinkPad-Yoga/Lenovo-Spyware/td-p/2174928 https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/ThinkPad-S-Series-ThinkPad-Yoga...
    • plainOldText 8y ago
      Yep, I was referring to that. You are correct, you won't be affected, since you run a different OS. I personally just couldn't stomach that a manufacturer would engage in such sneaky practices. So, maybe you're fine for now (I envy you slightly for enjoying such a well designed piece of non-Apple hardware) but will you trust the X7, X8, etc? Especially with the escalating US-China trade war.
• denebo 8y ago
  How does the trackpad feel? The only thing I haven't found anyone else do better than Apple is the Mac's trackpads. They're absolutely smooth and a pleasure to work with. I installed Unbuntu on a Lenovo and the trackpad felt horrible in comparison, even after tinkering endlessly with the settings.
  • jessedhillon 8y ago
    Half the allure of a Thinkpad is the trackpoint though.
    • jsharf 8y ago
      I don't understand trackpoint. I've tried flat & adaptive pressure profiles and a mix of different sensitivities. I always overshoot what I'm trying to click on a tiny bit. With a macbook touchpad, that just doesn't happen at all. Also, it feels like the force and dexterity to use a trackpoint puts a bit too much pressure on my finger. I've tried using a trackpoint for a while. I desperately regret switching my corp laptop from a macbook to thinkpad several months ago. Linux is nice, but now I have to deal with this really shitty trackpad for over another year until my refresh.
    • dj-wonk 8y ago
      The track point to me feels very unnatural. Do you switch fingers to give yourself a break?
    • denebo 8y ago
      I like the trackpoint because of the nostalgia factor, but in terms of dexterity, speed, and accuracy, there's no way it can compare to a trackpad.
  • paulie_a 8y ago
    Dell XPS trackpads are better than MBP, and plus if you get the developer edition you still get Linux.