5 ms·

Companies aren't magical beings. They are made up of people sitting in meetings in conference rooms, sending memos and writing TPS reports. Some one or ones mad

by coleca 8y ago

Companies aren't magical beings. They are made up of people sitting in meetings in conference rooms, sending memos and writing TPS reports. Some one or ones made the decision to do this and those people should be punished individually via the criminal justice system. If a single individual had written a virus or piece of malware that did the same function and was caught, they would face criminal penalties. It should be no different if the act was performed under the umbrella of a corporation. When people can perform bad acts like this (see: VW) and not fear any personal consequences this behavior becomes common and acceptable.

jessaustin 8y ago
...those people should be punished individually via the criminal justice system. When does that happen to execs in USA? This suggests that it has been a long time: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/05/americas-new-aristocracy-live-accountability-free-zone-david-sirota https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/05/americ...
- thelasthuman 8y ago
  Yeah, the only people punished will be the lowly worker who was forced to do the job by the higher ups in the first place.
PhasmaFelis 8y ago
Perhaps both. Punishing only the people deemed directly responsible makes it much too easy for corporations to scapegoat someone low on the totem pole, and it ensures that the culture that fosters bad behavior will never change--there's an endless supply of ambitious underlings to be sacrificed as necessary. If you hit them in the bottom line every time, they'll learn to police themselves. (Or perish. Either is fine.)
BoorishBears 8y ago
It's always funny to see people wishing death to companies that they've probably invested parts of their 401ks in unknowingly, or had their insurance payouts come out investiture in. Our economy is less like a cabal of fat cats twirling mustaches and puffing cigars at the thought of how they can further disenfranchise the poor, and more like an ecosystem. It's not like CEOs will even suffer, they'll probably get a fat comp bonus to try and keep them from jumping ship in the middle of bankruptcy proceeding.
- ceejayoz 8y ago
  > It's always funny to see people wishing death to companies that they've probably invested parts of their 401ks in unknowingly... It's always funny to see people thinking their personal profits should come first over preventing widespread harm.
  - BoorishBears 8y ago
    It’s widespread gain for widespread harm, let’s just make that clear. The loans people take out on their homes, the insurance on their cars and homes, and more tangibly, the companies involved in getting them the food they put on their tables for pennies on the dollar in raw value. We’re all in on this. Just because you don’t get a yacht out of it doesn’t mean the system doesn’t benefit you.
- skh 8y ago
  Someday Americans will hopefully devise a system where bad actors can be punished without fear of jeopardizing their ability to retire or receive other benefits.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > Our economy is less like a cabal of fat cats twirling mustaches and puffing cigars at the thought of how they can further disenfranchise the poor, and more like an ecosystem. An ecosystem with a cabal of fat cats twirling mustaches and puffing cigars at the thought of how they can further disenfranchise the poor sitting at the top of the food chain, sure. One of the ways they do that is to assure that workers have a trivial stake in the same things that the rich depend primarily on, so as to provide a basis for propaganda misleading the masses about a shared interest.
  - BoorishBears 8y ago
    What about their stake is trivial? As of this week, the lowest paid Amazon employee is less that 2,000$ away from being part of the global 1% We all consume like the world is going to leave us tomorrow but complain about the system that lets us? I’m from a 3rd world country, and even there, with all the exploitation and government mismanagement I wouldn’t buy that argument easily. But in the West? Even the poorest gain too much to wash their hands and say “this system doesn’t do anything for me” Maybe it doesn’t do as much for you as you’d like, but if it collapsed tomorrow morning and we “ate the rich”, their quality of living would be strictly worse than it is today. That’s not propaganda, that’s simple logic. Ironically I think if the entire world “ate the rich”, most Americans saying “eat the rich” would be eaten. PS, I hate when things are written off as propaganda. It’s too tautological: “Why is that false” “Because it’s propaganda”; “Why is it propaganda” “Because it’s false”. At least show the fault in the “propaganda”.

by coleca 8y ago

jessaustin 8y ago

...those people should be punished individually via the criminal justice system. When does that happen to execs in USA? This suggests that it has been a long time: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/05/americas-new-aristocracy-live-accountability-free-zone-david-sirota https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/05/americ...

thelasthuman 8y ago
Yeah, the only people punished will be the lowly worker who was forced to do the job by the higher ups in the first place.

PhasmaFelis 8y ago

Perhaps both. Punishing only the people deemed directly responsible makes it much too easy for corporations to scapegoat someone low on the totem pole, and it ensures that the culture that fosters bad behavior will never change--there's an endless supply of ambitious underlings to be sacrificed as necessary. If you hit them in the bottom line every time, they'll learn to police themselves. (Or perish. Either is fine.)

BoorishBears 8y ago

It's always funny to see people wishing death to companies that they've probably invested parts of their 401ks in unknowingly, or had their insurance payouts come out investiture in. Our economy is less like a cabal of fat cats twirling mustaches and puffing cigars at the thought of how they can further disenfranchise the poor, and more like an ecosystem. It's not like CEOs will even suffer, they'll probably get a fat comp bonus to try and keep them from jumping ship in the middle of bankruptcy proceeding.

ceejayoz 8y ago
> It's always funny to see people wishing death to companies that they've probably invested parts of their 401ks in unknowingly... It's always funny to see people thinking their personal profits should come first over preventing widespread harm.
- BoorishBears 8y ago
  It’s widespread gain for widespread harm, let’s just make that clear. The loans people take out on their homes, the insurance on their cars and homes, and more tangibly, the companies involved in getting them the food they put on their tables for pennies on the dollar in raw value. We’re all in on this. Just because you don’t get a yacht out of it doesn’t mean the system doesn’t benefit you.
skh 8y ago
Someday Americans will hopefully devise a system where bad actors can be punished without fear of jeopardizing their ability to retire or receive other benefits.
dragonwriter 8y ago
> Our economy is less like a cabal of fat cats twirling mustaches and puffing cigars at the thought of how they can further disenfranchise the poor, and more like an ecosystem. An ecosystem with a cabal of fat cats twirling mustaches and puffing cigars at the thought of how they can further disenfranchise the poor sitting at the top of the food chain, sure. One of the ways they do that is to assure that workers have a trivial stake in the same things that the rich depend primarily on, so as to provide a basis for propaganda misleading the masses about a shared interest.
- BoorishBears 8y ago
  What about their stake is trivial? As of this week, the lowest paid Amazon employee is less that 2,000$ away from being part of the global 1% We all consume like the world is going to leave us tomorrow but complain about the system that lets us? I’m from a 3rd world country, and even there, with all the exploitation and government mismanagement I wouldn’t buy that argument easily. But in the West? Even the poorest gain too much to wash their hands and say “this system doesn’t do anything for me” Maybe it doesn’t do as much for you as you’d like, but if it collapsed tomorrow morning and we “ate the rich”, their quality of living would be strictly worse than it is today. That’s not propaganda, that’s simple logic. Ironically I think if the entire world “ate the rich”, most Americans saying “eat the rich” would be eaten. PS, I hate when things are written off as propaganda. It’s too tautological: “Why is that false” “Because it’s propaganda”; “Why is it propaganda” “Because it’s false”. At least show the fault in the “propaganda”.