5 ms·

Stuff like this is pretty common in the military. When I was stationed at Camp Lejeune NC, my wife worked as a reporter for a local paper. One of her assignme

by dx87 8y ago

Stuff like this is pretty common in the military. When I was stationed at Camp Lejeune NC, my wife worked as a reporter for a local paper. One of her assignments was interviewing people at a town hall style meeting regarding chemicals in the base water supply. Children of people that lived in base housing had an abnormally high cancer rate, but the military denied that any of the contaminated water was leaking into the drinking water. I also remember the barracks I lived in had old asbestos floor tiles and the walls were covered in lead paint. They eventually renovated the barracks, and instead of getting rid of the lead paint, they just painted over it. The asbestos tiles weren't dealt with, and all they said was "just don't use a floor buffer and you'll be fine". There was also a cleaning station where we'd clean our rifles, no safety warnings or instructions were given, and we thought it was just a cleaning solution. Later we saw a warning sticker on it that said to use full eyes, face, and hand protection because the cleaning solution could cause neurological damage. Just waiting for health probelms to crop up once I'm older :/

jfim 8y ago
> instead of getting rid of the lead paint, they just painted over it This is actually one of the correct ways to deal with lead paint, assuming the "paint" is actually a proper encapsulant. See for example https://www.health.ny.gov/environmental/lead/renovation_repair_painting/encapsulants.htm https://www.health.ny.gov/environmental/lead/renovation_repa...
- userbinator 8y ago
  Ditto for the asbestos --- if it's not in a state where fibers of it can easily flake off and float around to be inhaled (technical term is "friable"), it won't do any harm.
  - azernik 8y ago
    And, in fact, any work to remove it can kick up dust and increase health hazards.
    - sumofzeros 8y ago
      Which raises the following question: is it better to leave the potential source of problem around as long as it's not triggered, or is it better to temporarily activate it in order to remove it for good?
      - iopuy 8y ago
        I have a suspicion that these people that "flip" houses diy style tend to disturb it without proper care. As a 17 year old I worked manual construction jobs (via craigslist) and even then knew enough to see proper precautions were not being taken. Oh well, they aren't the ones living in the house so I guess it all works out :-/
      - eveningcoffee 8y ago
        The key of the successful asbestos removal is to not make it airborne during the removal.
    - nate_meurer 8y ago
      True, and it can easily be exposed and made airborne by by accident. For example, many HVAC professionals are unaware or unconcerned about the asbestos fiberboard panels that were often packaged around register boxes until the 70's. These boards are fragile and will readily shed fibers into the air. Same goes for old ceiling panels, often loaded with friable asbestos. An act as simple as drilling a hole, or installing new can lights can load up the room with airborne fibers if done carelessly.
  - iopuy 8y ago
    Where is the source for this claim? I've always had a conspiracy theory that this is not true and that the "do not disturb and you'll be fine" theory was put forth to save all the home owners who would otherwise be told their homes are worthless or extremely expensive to properly fix. Even if the suggested reasoning is true, who is there to gurantee that a pervious owner did not improperly disturb the asbestos. My real estate agent toward me in all his years of experience in only one case did another ever admit to knowing of a problem where signing off on the proper lead paint/radon/asbestos warnings.
    - userbinator 8y ago
      Where is the source for this claim? The EPA, for one. https://www.epa.gov/asbestos/protect-your-family-exposures-asbestos https://www.epa.gov/asbestos/protect-your-family-exposures-a... The problem is inhalation of fibers, so if the fibers are not in the air and inhalable, they pose no risk.
      - metaphor 8y ago
        OSHA also conveniently provides references[1] to various relevant publications by EPA, NIOSH, DHHS, NCI, et al. [1] https://www.osha.gov/SLTC/asbestos/hazards.html https://www.osha.gov/SLTC/asbestos/hazards.html
    - astura 8y ago
      >My real estate agent toward me Don't ever trust anything a real estate agent tells you, especially if that agent stands to gain financially from your actions; they are the "used car salesmen" for houses. They lie. >only one case did another ever admit to knowing of a problem where signing off on the proper lead paint/radon/asbestos warnings. A problem? Like the existence of them? You should test for radon before buying a house, so you'll know. I have friends who turned down a house with high levels of radon because the seller wasn't willing to negotiate for radon remediation. Lead paint isn't a concern as long as it is undisturbed, however, you need to treat every house built before 1980 as having lead paint. Asbestos? I have asbestos in my house, which was disclosed to me, but it was professionally wrapped, so safe as long as it remains so. Pretty much every house that's as old as mine contains asbestos, at least in my neighborhood. So it doesn't effect the value of it at all, as long as it's wrapped.
Spooky23 8y ago
Asbestos tile and roofing aren’t really a big hazard. Usually the risky stuff that is still around is insulation in ceiling plenum and in concrete walls in 50-70s buildings. Government buildings are always suspect, as they often are exempt from many building codes, including fire codes.

by dx87 8y ago

jfim 8y ago

> instead of getting rid of the lead paint, they just painted over it This is actually one of the correct ways to deal with lead paint, assuming the "paint" is actually a proper encapsulant. See for example https://www.health.ny.gov/environmental/lead/renovation_repair_painting/encapsulants.htm https://www.health.ny.gov/environmental/lead/renovation_repa...

userbinator 8y ago
Ditto for the asbestos --- if it's not in a state where fibers of it can easily flake off and float around to be inhaled (technical term is "friable"), it won't do any harm.
- azernik 8y ago
  And, in fact, any work to remove it can kick up dust and increase health hazards.
  - sumofzeros 8y ago
    Which raises the following question: is it better to leave the potential source of problem around as long as it's not triggered, or is it better to temporarily activate it in order to remove it for good?
    - iopuy 8y ago
      I have a suspicion that these people that "flip" houses diy style tend to disturb it without proper care. As a 17 year old I worked manual construction jobs (via craigslist) and even then knew enough to see proper precautions were not being taken. Oh well, they aren't the ones living in the house so I guess it all works out :-/
    - eveningcoffee 8y ago
      The key of the successful asbestos removal is to not make it airborne during the removal.
  - nate_meurer 8y ago
    True, and it can easily be exposed and made airborne by by accident. For example, many HVAC professionals are unaware or unconcerned about the asbestos fiberboard panels that were often packaged around register boxes until the 70's. These boards are fragile and will readily shed fibers into the air. Same goes for old ceiling panels, often loaded with friable asbestos. An act as simple as drilling a hole, or installing new can lights can load up the room with airborne fibers if done carelessly.
- iopuy 8y ago
  Where is the source for this claim? I've always had a conspiracy theory that this is not true and that the "do not disturb and you'll be fine" theory was put forth to save all the home owners who would otherwise be told their homes are worthless or extremely expensive to properly fix. Even if the suggested reasoning is true, who is there to gurantee that a pervious owner did not improperly disturb the asbestos. My real estate agent toward me in all his years of experience in only one case did another ever admit to knowing of a problem where signing off on the proper lead paint/radon/asbestos warnings.
  - userbinator 8y ago
    Where is the source for this claim? The EPA, for one. https://www.epa.gov/asbestos/protect-your-family-exposures-asbestos https://www.epa.gov/asbestos/protect-your-family-exposures-a... The problem is inhalation of fibers, so if the fibers are not in the air and inhalable, they pose no risk.
    - metaphor 8y ago
      OSHA also conveniently provides references[1] to various relevant publications by EPA, NIOSH, DHHS, NCI, et al. [1] https://www.osha.gov/SLTC/asbestos/hazards.html https://www.osha.gov/SLTC/asbestos/hazards.html
  - astura 8y ago
    >My real estate agent toward me Don't ever trust anything a real estate agent tells you, especially if that agent stands to gain financially from your actions; they are the "used car salesmen" for houses. They lie. >only one case did another ever admit to knowing of a problem where signing off on the proper lead paint/radon/asbestos warnings. A problem? Like the existence of them? You should test for radon before buying a house, so you'll know. I have friends who turned down a house with high levels of radon because the seller wasn't willing to negotiate for radon remediation. Lead paint isn't a concern as long as it is undisturbed, however, you need to treat every house built before 1980 as having lead paint. Asbestos? I have asbestos in my house, which was disclosed to me, but it was professionally wrapped, so safe as long as it remains so. Pretty much every house that's as old as mine contains asbestos, at least in my neighborhood. So it doesn't effect the value of it at all, as long as it's wrapped.

Spooky23 8y ago

Asbestos tile and roofing aren’t really a big hazard. Usually the risky stuff that is still around is insulation in ceiling plenum and in concrete walls in 50-70s buildings. Government buildings are always suspect, as they often are exempt from many building codes, including fire codes.