4 ms·

Censorship is one thing, but luring a person to be whacked like the mafia is entirely another. As a-moral as the US' foreign policy can be, we don't do outright

Censorship is one thing, but luring a person to be whacked like the mafia is entirely another. As a-moral as the US' foreign policy can be, we don't do outright assassinations anymore (Bin-Laden notwithstanding). What Saudi Arabia did here is just abhorrent, and akin to something out of the Sopranos or Goodfellas.

jonny_eh 8y ago
How about concentration camps for Muslims in China? Not enough attention being brought to that.
- bilbo0s 8y ago
  Ok look, Yes. There are camps in China. Yes, there are genocidal Rwandan warlords stealing resources in the Congo. Yes, Aung San Suu Kyi and her boys are doing a pretty brutal number on the Rohingya right now. Yes, there are murderous cartels operating in Mexico. Yes, the United States is holding children in camps in deserts. Etc etc etc. What I'm trying to say is, YES, there is a lot of misery in the world. But right now we're talking about the fact that you've taken a chainsaw to a reporter for saying that he thinks you might be too brutal. Can we stop with the what aboutism for a moment and just kind of let that sink in for a second?
  - staticautomatic 8y ago
    "Misery" is not the word you're looking for.
- mkaziz 8y ago
  I'm surprised this isn't being talked about more, given hostility to China from the current US administration.
  - staticautomatic 8y ago
    My best guess is that the administration doesn't care because the people being "disappeared" are Muslim.
loceng 8y ago
Censorship would potentially block one from knowing a person was lured and whacked. Not sure how you can say assassinations don't happen anymore with any certainty. Russia does it via open poisoning. There are other ways to kill people subtly though without raising much or as much attention - or even making it look accidental. The countries where it's blatant are just because they have nothing to lose because they're safe in the areas they're in, however if targeting people outside that area - unless they're trying to make a point - they can be discreet, it's an illusion of safety otherwise.
andrepd 8y ago
>we don't do outright assassinations anymore Are you familiar with drones? >What Saudi Arabia did here is just abhorrent, and akin to something out of the Sopranos or Goodfellas. Funny that you mention this. Surely this violent act is shocking and catches the eye. But, the thing is that it can be argued that things like their financing of terrorism, or to be more direct their ongoing bombing of Yemen and funding of civil war is much more harmful than this one assassination -- much like Tony Soprano's asbestos dumping and HUD scams probably ended up causing more harm than the handful of people he "whacked"... Less overtly brutal, not necessarily less harmful.
- gruez 8y ago
  >Are you familiar with drones? when was the last time an opposition journalist was targeted for a drone strike by the us?
  - andrepd 8y ago
    Right, they just bomb foreigners, not nationals.
  - dragontamer 8y ago
    I'm going to just bring up Anwar Al Awlaki. A prominent contributor to Al Qaeda's "Inspire" magazine, and a preacher of that radical sect. I personally do believe the official US story that he was actively recruiting and actively participating in Al Qaeda. but a lot of people have debated with me otherwise. Clearly, he was "in" the Al Qaeda culture, but publicly at least... some believed him to only be a preacher. War is messy, to say the least. I'm not sure if the truth will ever come out. Nevertheless, I'm personally in the belief that Anwar Al Awlaki was too personally connected to a number of attackers, so he almost certainly was an operative. Nevertheless, I bring up this example to demonstrate that the line between "operative", "journalist", and "preacher" can very well be blurred during wartime. Regardless, the US certainly ordered an assassination through our Drone technology. Much of the evidence to his Al Qaeda "operative" connections is classified unfortunately. So the US Documents at least, won't be released for many years to come. In any case, even with only the public information, its clear that there's a "Lot of Smoke" as they say, and where there is smoke, there's probably a fire. But nothing really proves him to be an operative publicly (just a lot of corroborating evidence and close personal-connections to attackers).
blattimwind 8y ago
> we don't do outright assassinations anymore Well, your country (probably) doesn't chop up people in your embassies, but your country most certainly does assassinations and abductions in foreign countries world wide. It's proven fact.
DoubleCribble 8y ago
Sure we do. We just do it away from the American Embassy & with more collateral damage. Those Predator and Reaper drones in Afghanistan (Syria?, Iraq?) aren't just for surveillance. We track target cellphones and then drop a Hellfire on their car often enough that it doesn't even make the news.
ALittleLight 8y ago
>As a-moral as the US' foreign policy can be, we don't do outright assassinations anymore That's incredibly untrue. The drone assassination program was making ~2 strikes a week under Obama in Yemen, Syria, Afghanistan, and other places. After Trump took over that pace has accelerated and safety controls have been removed. What would you call these if not assassinations? I mean, nothing as barbaric as sawing a guy's body - but we're blowing up someone who we hope is our target and everyone near by. I'm not sure that's better. One difference is that the US isn't killing Western Journalists. The US does kill people, and coincidentally their children, for saying things they don't like though. Anwar al-Awlaki was an Islamic preacher, and US citizen, who preached in favor of jihad against the US. He was killed by drone strikes. Later, his teenage son, also an American citizen, was killed when the US "accidentally" blew up a restaurant where he was eating with friends. Still later, in another bit of bad luck, his eight year old daughter was killed by US forces in a commando raid. The US absolutely commits assassinations.
apexalpha 8y ago
>As a-moral as the US' foreign policy can be, we don't do outright assassinations anymore Your government kills people with drones, often with many innocent people as casualties along with it, without any form of process and even US citizens.

jonny_eh 8y ago

How about concentration camps for Muslims in China? Not enough attention being brought to that.

bilbo0s 8y ago
Ok look, Yes. There are camps in China. Yes, there are genocidal Rwandan warlords stealing resources in the Congo. Yes, Aung San Suu Kyi and her boys are doing a pretty brutal number on the Rohingya right now. Yes, there are murderous cartels operating in Mexico. Yes, the United States is holding children in camps in deserts. Etc etc etc. What I'm trying to say is, YES, there is a lot of misery in the world. But right now we're talking about the fact that you've taken a chainsaw to a reporter for saying that he thinks you might be too brutal. Can we stop with the what aboutism for a moment and just kind of let that sink in for a second?
- staticautomatic 8y ago
  "Misery" is not the word you're looking for.
mkaziz 8y ago
I'm surprised this isn't being talked about more, given hostility to China from the current US administration.
- staticautomatic 8y ago
  My best guess is that the administration doesn't care because the people being "disappeared" are Muslim.

loceng 8y ago

Censorship would potentially block one from knowing a person was lured and whacked. Not sure how you can say assassinations don't happen anymore with any certainty. Russia does it via open poisoning. There are other ways to kill people subtly though without raising much or as much attention - or even making it look accidental. The countries where it's blatant are just because they have nothing to lose because they're safe in the areas they're in, however if targeting people outside that area - unless they're trying to make a point - they can be discreet, it's an illusion of safety otherwise.

andrepd 8y ago

>we don't do outright assassinations anymore Are you familiar with drones? >What Saudi Arabia did here is just abhorrent, and akin to something out of the Sopranos or Goodfellas. Funny that you mention this. Surely this violent act is shocking and catches the eye. But, the thing is that it can be argued that things like their financing of terrorism, or to be more direct their ongoing bombing of Yemen and funding of civil war is much more harmful than this one assassination -- much like Tony Soprano's asbestos dumping and HUD scams probably ended up causing more harm than the handful of people he "whacked"... Less overtly brutal, not necessarily less harmful.

gruez 8y ago
>Are you familiar with drones? when was the last time an opposition journalist was targeted for a drone strike by the us?
- andrepd 8y ago
  Right, they just bomb foreigners, not nationals.
- dragontamer 8y ago
  I'm going to just bring up Anwar Al Awlaki. A prominent contributor to Al Qaeda's "Inspire" magazine, and a preacher of that radical sect. I personally do believe the official US story that he was actively recruiting and actively participating in Al Qaeda. but a lot of people have debated with me otherwise. Clearly, he was "in" the Al Qaeda culture, but publicly at least... some believed him to only be a preacher. War is messy, to say the least. I'm not sure if the truth will ever come out. Nevertheless, I'm personally in the belief that Anwar Al Awlaki was too personally connected to a number of attackers, so he almost certainly was an operative. Nevertheless, I bring up this example to demonstrate that the line between "operative", "journalist", and "preacher" can very well be blurred during wartime. Regardless, the US certainly ordered an assassination through our Drone technology. Much of the evidence to his Al Qaeda "operative" connections is classified unfortunately. So the US Documents at least, won't be released for many years to come. In any case, even with only the public information, its clear that there's a "Lot of Smoke" as they say, and where there is smoke, there's probably a fire. But nothing really proves him to be an operative publicly (just a lot of corroborating evidence and close personal-connections to attackers).

blattimwind 8y ago

> we don't do outright assassinations anymore Well, your country (probably) doesn't chop up people in your embassies, but your country most certainly does assassinations and abductions in foreign countries world wide. It's proven fact.

DoubleCribble 8y ago

Sure we do. We just do it away from the American Embassy & with more collateral damage. Those Predator and Reaper drones in Afghanistan (Syria?, Iraq?) aren't just for surveillance. We track target cellphones and then drop a Hellfire on their car often enough that it doesn't even make the news.

ALittleLight 8y ago

>As a-moral as the US' foreign policy can be, we don't do outright assassinations anymore That's incredibly untrue. The drone assassination program was making ~2 strikes a week under Obama in Yemen, Syria, Afghanistan, and other places. After Trump took over that pace has accelerated and safety controls have been removed. What would you call these if not assassinations? I mean, nothing as barbaric as sawing a guy's body - but we're blowing up someone who we hope is our target and everyone near by. I'm not sure that's better. One difference is that the US isn't killing Western Journalists. The US does kill people, and coincidentally their children, for saying things they don't like though. Anwar al-Awlaki was an Islamic preacher, and US citizen, who preached in favor of jihad against the US. He was killed by drone strikes. Later, his teenage son, also an American citizen, was killed when the US "accidentally" blew up a restaurant where he was eating with friends. Still later, in another bit of bad luck, his eight year old daughter was killed by US forces in a commando raid. The US absolutely commits assassinations.

apexalpha 8y ago

>As a-moral as the US' foreign policy can be, we don't do outright assassinations anymore Your government kills people with drones, often with many innocent people as casualties along with it, without any form of process and even US citizens.