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This is Trump's boy. He helped him get in power. In some ways Trump might have done a good things, because the Saudi needed a bit more crazy guy on the top for

This is Trump's boy. He helped him get in power. In some ways Trump might have done a good things, because the Saudi needed a bit more crazy guy on the top for the west to finally wake up about what a terrible place Saudi Arabia is. The whole west, and in particular the US has made a faustian bargain with Saudi Arabia. Sooner or later someone has to answer for that. Our number one terrorists problem comes from Wahabism, the toxic strain of Islam, coming straight out of Saudi Arabia funded by petro dollars. It was weak and embarrassing that we could not back up Canada when they stood up to these bullies.

sremani 8y ago
MBS came to power as a prince during Obama administration. To his credit Obama was lukewarm to Saudis in his second term. There is an intersection of interests. The tight but informal alliance between KSA and Israel against Iran cannot be understated. The top priority of Arab-alliance and Israel right now is to contain Iran, and if possible Turkey. So, they informally co-operate and given all of these countries side with USA and Trump being hawkish put his entire support behind this alliance. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson lost his job partially due to his opposition to KSA and UAE attacking Qatar (which did not happen because of lack of US support). For now USA-KSA-Israel have a common purpose vis-a-vis Iran, and I do not think that is going to chance in the near term, but mid-term on since USA has ample energy reserves and in its pivot to greener energey sources KSA is of limited help, its very likely the KSA story will unravel. But the Chinese and Indians need that Arab-petroleum they may have to step-in if US steps-out.
- dragontamer 8y ago
  Frankly, I find Iran to be less threatening than Saudi Arabia. Of course, I don't actually live in the Middle East (and I'm sure our Israeli allies disagree with my opinion). But the Saudi / Iran relationship has always struck me as odd. The main issue is that the US truly messed up our relationship with Iran in the 1970s and 1980s (and they reciprocated: Iran-Contra affair and all that). But as bad as the hostages / attacks / etc. etc. got between the US and Iran during the Cold War... Al Qaeda literally launched the 9/11 attacks from Saudi Arabia, and the infamous hijackers were primarily from Saudi Arabia. The militant form of Wahhabism was Osama Bin Laden's religion and is strongly based in that area. I mean, we somehow kept a good relationship with the Princes of Saudi Arabia, and I understand that the leadership of that country does cooperate with us. But for all the bluster about "Islamic Extremist Terror", Mr. Trump bowed down and participated in swords dances last time he went into Saudi Arabia... never once bringing up the issue publicly the last time he had a chance. ------- All in all, I'm happy that the general US Population is waking up to the fact that our "ally" in the middle east deserves far more scrutiny than we've been giving them so far. I don't necessarily want our relationship to go sour. But we need a serious and stern talking to Saudi Arabia in general, that we the USA do not approve of a lot of the things that country does. Frankly, those princes have far too cozy a relationship with Wahhabism for me to be comfortable with, and their human rights record is pretty bad as well (see the primary story about Jamal Khashoggi)
mjevans 8y ago
Armchair speculation here... Is Canada only able to stand up like this due to the decreased competition improving the quantity of profitable petroleum reserves? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves_in_Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves_in_Canada Moreover, I think this points to a need for greater energy independence. Be that capturing solar energy more effectively or actually modern nuclear plants that burn up the fuel instead of producing lots of waste.
- captain_perl 8y ago
  Canada has oil, uranium, water ... the resource list is endless.
throwaway5752 8y ago
Well, he's not really Trump's boy as much as the other way around. Trump is basically insolvent, and Saudis own him vis a vis cash, much like it's alleged he got under the influence of Russian oligarchs. Look at the show he put on trying to make this go away: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18196783 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18196783 (and my best effort transcription)

sremani 8y ago

MBS came to power as a prince during Obama administration. To his credit Obama was lukewarm to Saudis in his second term. There is an intersection of interests. The tight but informal alliance between KSA and Israel against Iran cannot be understated. The top priority of Arab-alliance and Israel right now is to contain Iran, and if possible Turkey. So, they informally co-operate and given all of these countries side with USA and Trump being hawkish put his entire support behind this alliance. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson lost his job partially due to his opposition to KSA and UAE attacking Qatar (which did not happen because of lack of US support). For now USA-KSA-Israel have a common purpose vis-a-vis Iran, and I do not think that is going to chance in the near term, but mid-term on since USA has ample energy reserves and in its pivot to greener energey sources KSA is of limited help, its very likely the KSA story will unravel. But the Chinese and Indians need that Arab-petroleum they may have to step-in if US steps-out.

dragontamer 8y ago
Frankly, I find Iran to be less threatening than Saudi Arabia. Of course, I don't actually live in the Middle East (and I'm sure our Israeli allies disagree with my opinion). But the Saudi / Iran relationship has always struck me as odd. The main issue is that the US truly messed up our relationship with Iran in the 1970s and 1980s (and they reciprocated: Iran-Contra affair and all that). But as bad as the hostages / attacks / etc. etc. got between the US and Iran during the Cold War... Al Qaeda literally launched the 9/11 attacks from Saudi Arabia, and the infamous hijackers were primarily from Saudi Arabia. The militant form of Wahhabism was Osama Bin Laden's religion and is strongly based in that area. I mean, we somehow kept a good relationship with the Princes of Saudi Arabia, and I understand that the leadership of that country does cooperate with us. But for all the bluster about "Islamic Extremist Terror", Mr. Trump bowed down and participated in swords dances last time he went into Saudi Arabia... never once bringing up the issue publicly the last time he had a chance. ------- All in all, I'm happy that the general US Population is waking up to the fact that our "ally" in the middle east deserves far more scrutiny than we've been giving them so far. I don't necessarily want our relationship to go sour. But we need a serious and stern talking to Saudi Arabia in general, that we the USA do not approve of a lot of the things that country does. Frankly, those princes have far too cozy a relationship with Wahhabism for me to be comfortable with, and their human rights record is pretty bad as well (see the primary story about Jamal Khashoggi)

mjevans 8y ago

Armchair speculation here... Is Canada only able to stand up like this due to the decreased competition improving the quantity of profitable petroleum reserves? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves_in_Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves_in_Canada Moreover, I think this points to a need for greater energy independence. Be that capturing solar energy more effectively or actually modern nuclear plants that burn up the fuel instead of producing lots of waste.

captain_perl 8y ago
Canada has oil, uranium, water ... the resource list is endless.

throwaway5752 8y ago

Well, he's not really Trump's boy as much as the other way around. Trump is basically insolvent, and Saudis own him vis a vis cash, much like it's alleged he got under the influence of Russian oligarchs. Look at the show he put on trying to make this go away: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18196783 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18196783 (and my best effort transcription)