9 ms·
Is Saudi money becoming radioactive?
- newfocogi 8y agoObligatory reference to Betteridge's Law of Headlines... But seriously, the idea that you vote with your dollars becomes even more compelling when you have billions to throw around. Unfortunately when you cast your vote and what you end up voting for don't always happen in the expected order.
- ilamont 8y agoSV founders get into bed with questionable characters, one-party governments, and evil empires all the time. If the past and present is any guide, the people named in this article will say some nice-sounding things or stay quiet and wait for the news cycle to move on to the next scandal. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/12/08/why-does-mark-zuckerberg-want-facebook-employees-to-read-the-chinese-presidents-book/?utm_term=.91dd257f8aaa https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/12/08... https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/11/yuri-milner-paradise-papers/545483/ https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/11/yu...
- empath75 8y ago>”Is Starbucks a righteous source?” I remember the time they cut up a Peet’s coffee customer with a bone saw.
- krn 8y agoSaudi Arabia's missing princes: https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-40926963 https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-40926963 Saudis Said to Use Coercion and Abuse to Seize Billions: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/11/world/middleeast/saudi-arabia-corruption-mohammed-bin-salman.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/11/world/middleeast/saudi-ar... Saudi Arabia arrests economist after he criticises Crown Prince's plans: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-economist-arrest-mohammed-bin-salman-terror-charges-mbs-name-of-economist-edited-a8564991.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-a...
- Jerry2 8y agoLook at the list of prominent SV VCs and execs who were recently 'named to a Saudi advisory board': Sam Altman, Marc Andreessen, Travis Kalanick etc. https://www.businessinsider.com/tech-execs-named-saudi-board-controversy-jamal-khashoggi-disappearance-2018-10?op=1 https://www.businessinsider.com/tech-execs-named-saudi-board...
- SauciestGNU 8y agoSurprised Sam Altman would sign on. Doesn't Saudi Arabia execute non-heterosexual people?
- subliminalpanda 8y agoLGBT rights in Saudi Arabia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Saudi_Arabia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Saudi_Arabia
- blattimwind 8y agoKSA is not exactly under the rule of law.
- int_19h 8y agoI believe it technically is, in a sense that Sharia (which is the supreme law) is supposed to be applicable even to the royal family. But I doubt that's how it works in practice.
- piva00 8y agoThat is almost exactly what it means to not be under the rule of law, when laws can be applied selectively you technically aren't under the rule of it, if there is a group above it they also can get away of going against it.
- sys_64738 8y agoThis country should be on the terrorist watch list. 19 of the 9/11 terrorists came from that country. This same country is armed by the Brits. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40553741 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40553741
- ProAm 8y ago> there’s growing outrage over the week-long disappearance of dissident Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi, who Turkish officials say was murdered last week in the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul on orders from the Saudi Royal family, then cut into pieces with a bone saw and removed from the building. Wow, that's crazy. >Silicon Valley big wheels as Marc Andreessen, Sam Altman and Travis Kalanick are advisors to a $500 billion megacity project being built by the country, which has pitched it as a model of what future cities will look like. Has Sam Altman commented on this project at all, or is it not associated with YC?
- loceng 8y agoLikewise, YC's move into China was brought up by people on HN concerned about the censorship practices of the Chinese government.
- anon49124 8y agoTo be fair, China disappears dissidents too.
- acjohnson55 8y agoAnd movie stars and international police chiefs, apparently.
- anon49124 8y agoHollywood, YC, Google and anyone else whom collaborates with and enables the Chinese regime has such a level of moral turpitude that they're either fools or sociopaths.
- VonGuard 8y agoCensorship is one thing, but luring a person to be whacked like the mafia is entirely another. As a-moral as the US' foreign policy can be, we don't do outright assassinations anymore (Bin-Laden notwithstanding). What Saudi Arabia did here is just abhorrent, and akin to something out of the Sopranos or Goodfellas.
- clubm8 8y agoI'm surprised it took 17 years after Saudi money paid for 9/11[1] for this to become the case. [1]https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/15/911-report-saudi-arabia-28-pages-released https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/15/911-report-s...
- darkhorn 8y ago5 dancing Iraelis arrested on 9/11 https://youtu.be/tRfhUezbKLw https://youtu.be/tRfhUezbKLw
- kgc 8y agoThis would imply that the SoftBank Vision fund is also radioactive...
- jernfrost 8y agoThis is Trump's boy. He helped him get in power. In some ways Trump might have done a good things, because the Saudi needed a bit more crazy guy on the top for the west to finally wake up about what a terrible place Saudi Arabia is. The whole west, and in particular the US has made a faustian bargain with Saudi Arabia. Sooner or later someone has to answer for that. Our number one terrorists problem comes from Wahabism, the toxic strain of Islam, coming straight out of Saudi Arabia funded by petro dollars. It was weak and embarrassing that we could not back up Canada when they stood up to these bullies.
- sremani 8y agoMBS came to power as a prince during Obama administration. To his credit Obama was lukewarm to Saudis in his second term. There is an intersection of interests. The tight but informal alliance between KSA and Israel against Iran cannot be understated. The top priority of Arab-alliance and Israel right now is to contain Iran, and if possible Turkey. So, they informally co-operate and given all of these countries side with USA and Trump being hawkish put his entire support behind this alliance. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson lost his job partially due to his opposition to KSA and UAE attacking Qatar (which did not happen because of lack of US support). For now USA-KSA-Israel have a common purpose vis-a-vis Iran, and I do not think that is going to chance in the near term, but mid-term on since USA has ample energy reserves and in its pivot to greener energey sources KSA is of limited help, its very likely the KSA story will unravel. But the Chinese and Indians need that Arab-petroleum they may have to step-in if US steps-out.
- dragontamer 8y agoFrankly, I find Iran to be less threatening than Saudi Arabia. Of course, I don't actually live in the Middle East (and I'm sure our Israeli allies disagree with my opinion). But the Saudi / Iran relationship has always struck me as odd. The main issue is that the US truly messed up our relationship with Iran in the 1970s and 1980s (and they reciprocated: Iran-Contra affair and all that). But as bad as the hostages / attacks / etc. etc. got between the US and Iran during the Cold War... Al Qaeda literally launched the 9/11 attacks from Saudi Arabia, and the infamous hijackers were primarily from Saudi Arabia. The militant form of Wahhabism was Osama Bin Laden's religion and is strongly based in that area. I mean, we somehow kept a good relationship with the Princes of Saudi Arabia, and I understand that the leadership of that country does cooperate with us. But for all the bluster about "Islamic Extremist Terror", Mr. Trump bowed down and participated in swords dances last time he went into Saudi Arabia... never once bringing up the issue publicly the last time he had a chance. ------- All in all, I'm happy that the general US Population is waking up to the fact that our "ally" in the middle east deserves far more scrutiny than we've been giving them so far. I don't necessarily want our relationship to go sour. But we need a serious and stern talking to Saudi Arabia in general, that we the USA do not approve of a lot of the things that country does. Frankly, those princes have far too cozy a relationship with Wahhabism for me to be comfortable with, and their human rights record is pretty bad as well (see the primary story about Jamal Khashoggi)
- timavr 8y agoUSA has a lot of problems, but the fact that free press exists is a miracle. Calling people out by name that they are hypocrites by taking Saudi money and basically funding murder would get you killed in most countries.
- andrepd 8y agoWhich is why the ongoing attacks against the press are so serious. No joke: a free press is almost as fundamental to a democracy as a good electoral process, or good courts.
- jonny_eh 8y agoI'd argue it's the most important factor to a functioning democracy.
- ryanhuff 8y agoBlanket attacks on the broad press by politicians and the government are not good for a functioning democracy. Calling out specific news organizations for specific failures is.
- cpncrunch 8y agoBut is a free press that has no checks and balances actually useful to democracy? I was going to make a complaint yesterday about a Fox News article that had some serious factual errors, but I see there is no agency in the USA to make such a complaint to. So basically you have all sorts of fake news being peddled and there's absolutely nothing that can be done about it.
- timavr 8y agoI think where US struggles is general education of population and engagement with political process. Press is subjective and you need engaged critically thinking electorate to see when BS is being presented to them. Basically fake news is on us, not on them.
- reza_n 8y ago> ...Diplomatic murder, women's rights arrests, Yemen war, Canada row, royal imprisonmemt... There is also the failed blockade of Qatar. Seems like this has been a pretty disastrous few years for MBS and he isn't even king. Im surprised he hasn't been replaced. These are pretty massive blunders.
- bilbo0s 8y ago>Im surprised he hasn't been replaced... Uh, he just took a chainsaw to a guy who said he didn't like the color of his robe. Would you suggest replacing a guy who does that if you were inside elite circles in The Kingdom?
- reza_n 8y agoIf history is any guide, regime change doesn't need to come from within. Many parallels have been drawn to Saddam.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- saudiokay 8y agoThe article is right on the point out the hypocrisy in condemning slight missteps on the front of gender and diversity in one hand, and taking money from those that order unlawful murders in another.
- jayalpha 8y agoThe US (and now also Israel) siding with Saudi Arabia and condemning Iran has always been madness in my opinion. See also: http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2015/02/isis-isnt-the-problem-saudi-arabia-is.html http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2015/02... http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2015/01/saudi-arabia-on-the-edge-of-an-abyss.html http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2015/01...
- mattnewport 8y agoSomething seems odd about this story. I can see him dying in a botched interrogation or extraordinary rendition and it being covered up, or it was a successful extraordinary rendition and he's back in a cell in Saudi Arabia, but if they just wanted him dead why would it take 15 people and why would they do it in their consulate? It seems like there are easier and more plausibly deniable methods employed to do that like a "botched robbery", fire, heart attack or car crash.
- BinaryIdiot 8y agoYou seem to think thinking about this way too much, IMO. What's easier / cheaper? Paying a group of guys to just "go to X, kill him in the streets" or the whole "make it look like a car accident" route from movies? The former is easier, cheaper and quicker. I mean these people bankrolled the largest terror attack on US soil and we still do business with them, why would anyone care about a single journalist?
- mattnewport 8y agoIt still seems odd, "go to X, kill him in the streets" takes one or maybe two assassin types not 15 agents and why would you do it in your consulate? There are lots of examples of suspicious deaths that look like possible assassinations. They don't usually look like this.
- BinaryIdiot 8y ago> It still seems odd, "go to X, kill him in the streets" takes one or maybe two assassin types not 15 agents Maybe in the movies. The more people the less likely one of you takes much if any damage / death so it's safer that way. They may have wanted to cover most of the exits, too. > why would you do it in your consulate Because that's where he was? I won't pretend to know what their plan was but it probably wasn't anything too complicated. Just go, kill x, cut up, leave.
- hollerith 8y ago>why would you do it in your consulate? A country not does have jurisdiction over embassies on its soil. Maybe the same thing applies to consulates. I.e., maybe killing people in a Saudi consulate is not technically a crime where the same actions on the streets of Turkey would be a crime under Turkish law.
- pteredactyl 8y agoNot to mention all the people they've killed in Yemen and elsewhere...
- kisstheblade 8y agoWell, money talks, and weak people like money. The saudis are scum, I would never have anything to do with them. I mean the just now apparently "let" women drive! Are you kidding me, they still think of women as property and as lesser beings than dogs. Or try being gay over there.
- xte 8y agoAny country that have an official religion, any country that is not a democracy with simple and well known rules for voting like Swiss is not a free country but a strong or light dictatorship and people inside it should know that and decide what to do for themself and their future generation.
- cyphunk 8y agoWhat reasons are there for being more suspect of money from Palestinians than other middle eastern partners: > “typically, entrepreneurs don’t like to focus on politics and historically have not cared very much where the money came from,” except if it’s “from the PLO or Iran.” Quote from "Longtime VC Jeff Bussgang of Flybridge Capital Partners in Boston"