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Europe will not win race for ambitious people. I lived in Sweden for almost one year as an expat (I'm a software engineer). Now, I live in the Netherlands for
by hal9000xp 8y ago
Europe will not win race for ambitious people.
I lived in Sweden for almost one year as an expat (I'm a software engineer). Now, I live in the Netherlands for more than two years.
I can say for sure that Europe is nowhere near Silicon Valley in terms of compensation for ambitious software engineers. Sweden went total nuts with taxes, anything above $6500 per month would be taxed at 55-60% tax rate. It's effectively cap to enforce equality of outcome.
60% tax doesn't mean that ultra-high salaries will be taxed at this rate. It means that ultra-high salaries will not exist in job market in the first place.
The best Swedish startup threatens to leave Sweden because of regulatory and tax burden [1].
The Netherlands recognized importance of highly-skilled expats by introducing tax discounts called "30% ruling". I do respect their efforts to attract talent. That's why I moved from Sweden to the Netherlands in 2016.
However, as non-EU citizen you can work only for publicly registered sponsors [2]. Usually, it's boring well-established companies. So I missed some cool opportunities due to this limitation.
As I learned dutch local job market, I found that almost nobody will pay you 10'000 EUR per month.
Aside from tax and regulatory burden in Europe, there are cultural things like Law of Jante [3]. I can't imagine how society with such mentality can attract highly ambitious people.
Also, talking about money in Europe is kinda taboo. And dutch automatically repeat "money is not everything". It wouldb't annoy me if someone committed to work for open source software. Or being great painter. But when recruiter respond me "money is not everything" when I'm asking "too much", it annoys me a lot.
With that in mind, I decided to abandon idea of living in Europe, getting citizenship, learning dutch language etc. It was tough decision for me but it's time to move on. It's not kind of a society where I want to spend rest of my life. Sorry dutch and swedes, I don't fit here.
So I decided to move to Hong Kong. I've just got very lucrative job offer in Hong Kong (in HFT). The size of compensation is far beyond of what Europe can offer me. Now, I'm almost on par with US (I couldn't get into US because I don't have any degree). Now, I'm just waiting for my HK visa getting approved.
You might troll me saying that, I'm whining. OK, I have answer to that. Just look at my net salary increases:
Russia -> Sweden (2015) +28%
Sweden -> Sweden (2015) +15%
Sweden -> the Netherlands (2016) +63%
the Netherlands -> Hong Kong (2018) +83% (and possible bonus up to 300% of yearly salaries!)
I will work like crazy fanatic and in next six years I will be well over $1M of liquid net worth.
So Europe lost me. Europe is perfect place for people who just want to work from 9 to 5 and put family as their top priority. It's not suited for risk takers.
Links:
https://www.thelocal.se/20160412/spotify-founders-sweden-is-heading-in-the-wrong-direction https://www.thelocal.se/20160412/spotify-founders-sweden-is-...
https://ind.nl/en/work/Pages/Highly-skilled-migrant.aspx https://ind.nl/en/work/Pages/Highly-skilled-migrant.aspx
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Jante https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Jante
- watwut 8y agoOut of curiosity, what risk in last paragraph have you in mind? What is in stakes and what can you loose?
- hal9000xp 8y agoAre you asking about what I mean by "It was tough decision for me"? You can read my post dated 2014: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8692961 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8692961 In short, I was very upset by political situation in Russia and I felt that I must settle in any relatively free country even at great opportunity cost. But now, I became more confident of my skills and as a result I became more risk tolerant and more ambitious. I decided that in order to be truly happy I should take more risks and completely abandon the idea of stable and predictable life in Europe. When I leave the Netherlands, all my legal time till citizenship will reset. And I can't truly settle in Hong Kong because housing prices are insanely high and I can't get citizenship there but my bet is that I will become so successful that I will be able to settle anywhere I want as high net worth individual.
- watwut 8y ago> Are you asking about what I mean by "It was tough decision for me"? No. I was referring to "It's not suited for risk takers". I was curious about where you see risks. What is the danger, what is the valuable thing you might loose by the move. Excluding trade-offs - "legal time till citizenship will reset" is more of trade-off or cost because you know it will happen. It is uncomfortable and obstacle and challenge for sure, I don't want to deprecate the difficulties involved, but it is not what I wanted to ask about.
- madeuptempacct 8y agoI am interested in how you learned to program given that you are saying you have no degree. It seems most Russian immigrants either come from the 80s phd era or have wealthy patterns and go to a foreign school. So, you learned on your own?
- 8y ago