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> DoNotPay is the brainchild of Joshua Browder, who initially created it to dispute the dozens of parking tickets he was racking up when he was 18. Ah yes, let

> DoNotPay is the brainchild of Joshua Browder, who initially created it to dispute the dozens of parking tickets he was racking up when he was 18. Ah yes, let's make it even easier to flood the already overloaded legal system with frivolous lawsuits because you are the kind of person who can't be bothered to not park in a handicapped spot or drive under the speed limits.

Bartweiss 8y ago
The assumption that parking tickets are usually avoidable and legitimate is understandable, but surprisingly far from true. The assumption that the legal system is overloaded as a single entity that's stressed by all new cases is also untrue. One of the most ticketed spots in Chicago was a mind-bending mess of conflicting signage: it was a cab stand except when it was metered parking with a digital meter nowhere near the spot, which took money and issued city parking receipts for times when it didn't govern any legal parking spaces. Matt Chapman dug through ticket data to find this, asked the ward to clarify the signage, and annual ticketing there fell by half, saving $60,000 per year. Not exactly intentionally parking in handicapped spaces, is it? [1] Of course, those were still legal tickets. The NYPD kicked things up a notch by simply failing to understand the city's parking laws. Parking in front of pedestrian curb cuts in NYC is legal if those cuts don't connect to crosswalks. Ben Wellington got a ticket for parking in one of those spots, and decided to see how many other people it had happened to. Rough estimate? Ten thousand illegal tickets per year, costing New Yorkers $1,700,000. And apparently an honest mistake - once Wellington raised it with the NYPD, they offered a reasonable explanation and promptly fixed the problem! [2] Finally, these are not the sorts of cases which are overloading the legal system. Criminal charges in big cities consistently take more than a year to reach trial, even for very simple cases, and even simple bail or motion to dismiss hearings can take a shocking amount of time. But those suits do not funge against disputed parking tickets, rent payments, or bank fees, which are handled in traffic, housing, or small claims courts that are nowhere near as overloaded or urgent. And with high rates of summary judgement, mediation, and self-representation, those courts don't even have a substantial impact on the price of legal aid for plaintiffs elsewhere. [3] Frivolous lawsuits and overloaded courts are very real problems, but an app that helps people represent themselves in the face of inappropriate tickets is not a meaningful contributor. [1] https://mchap.io/using-foia-data-and-unix-to-halve-major-source-of-parking-tickets.html https://mchap.io/using-foia-data-and-unix-to-halve-major-sou... [2] http://iquantny.tumblr.com/post/144197004989/the-nypd-was-systematically-ticketing-legally http://iquantny.tumblr.com/post/144197004989/the-nypd-was-sy... [3] https://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/02/opinion/waiting-and-waiting-for-justice.html https://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/02/opinion/waiting-and-waiti...
- dvtrn 8y ago
  While that writeup of Chicago parking tickets was relevant to me (I live in Chicago), I made a bet with myself when I read your comment that 1000 block of State St. would be one of the highest ticketed zones. Glad to see I wasn't wrong.
  - Bartweiss 8y ago
    Wow. The ticket numbers in that article were surprisingly high, but I still wouldn't have expected that natives could guess the highest-ticket zone in advance. State Street is hugely high-traffic, obviously, but if you asked me to predict the highest ticket block in my city I don't think I'd have a hope. (Hmmm... now I want the answer. Time for a FOIA request of my own perhaps?)
    - dvtrn 8y ago
      Eh I work off State so walking to/from work or lunch I see a LOT of those orange envelopes on lots of cars, plus having a desk right near a window means seeing lots of busy parking attendants. I just sort of guessed wildly heh

Bartweiss 8y ago

The assumption that parking tickets are usually avoidable and legitimate is understandable, but surprisingly far from true. The assumption that the legal system is overloaded as a single entity that's stressed by all new cases is also untrue. One of the most ticketed spots in Chicago was a mind-bending mess of conflicting signage: it was a cab stand except when it was metered parking with a digital meter nowhere near the spot, which took money and issued city parking receipts for times when it didn't govern any legal parking spaces. Matt Chapman dug through ticket data to find this, asked the ward to clarify the signage, and annual ticketing there fell by half, saving $60,000 per year. Not exactly intentionally parking in handicapped spaces, is it? [1] Of course, those were still legal tickets. The NYPD kicked things up a notch by simply failing to understand the city's parking laws. Parking in front of pedestrian curb cuts in NYC is legal if those cuts don't connect to crosswalks. Ben Wellington got a ticket for parking in one of those spots, and decided to see how many other people it had happened to. Rough estimate? Ten thousand illegal tickets per year, costing New Yorkers $1,700,000. And apparently an honest mistake - once Wellington raised it with the NYPD, they offered a reasonable explanation and promptly fixed the problem! [2] Finally, these are not the sorts of cases which are overloading the legal system. Criminal charges in big cities consistently take more than a year to reach trial, even for very simple cases, and even simple bail or motion to dismiss hearings can take a shocking amount of time. But those suits do not funge against disputed parking tickets, rent payments, or bank fees, which are handled in traffic, housing, or small claims courts that are nowhere near as overloaded or urgent. And with high rates of summary judgement, mediation, and self-representation, those courts don't even have a substantial impact on the price of legal aid for plaintiffs elsewhere. [3] Frivolous lawsuits and overloaded courts are very real problems, but an app that helps people represent themselves in the face of inappropriate tickets is not a meaningful contributor. [1] https://mchap.io/using-foia-data-and-unix-to-halve-major-source-of-parking-tickets.html https://mchap.io/using-foia-data-and-unix-to-halve-major-sou... [2] http://iquantny.tumblr.com/post/144197004989/the-nypd-was-systematically-ticketing-legally http://iquantny.tumblr.com/post/144197004989/the-nypd-was-sy... [3] https://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/02/opinion/waiting-and-waiting-for-justice.html https://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/02/opinion/waiting-and-waiti...

dvtrn 8y ago
While that writeup of Chicago parking tickets was relevant to me (I live in Chicago), I made a bet with myself when I read your comment that 1000 block of State St. would be one of the highest ticketed zones. Glad to see I wasn't wrong.
- Bartweiss 8y ago
  Wow. The ticket numbers in that article were surprisingly high, but I still wouldn't have expected that natives could guess the highest-ticket zone in advance. State Street is hugely high-traffic, obviously, but if you asked me to predict the highest ticket block in my city I don't think I'd have a hope. (Hmmm... now I want the answer. Time for a FOIA request of my own perhaps?)
  - dvtrn 8y ago
    Eh I work off State so walking to/from work or lunch I see a LOT of those orange envelopes on lots of cars, plus having a desk right near a window means seeing lots of busy parking attendants. I just sort of guessed wildly heh