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not sure the app does what your think it does...in fact I have no clue what you even mean by “dry rehearse and check out different outcomes.” I don’t think the

not sure the app does what your think it does...in fact I have no clue what you even mean by “dry rehearse and check out different outcomes.” I don’t think the app is running any sort of simulation here, and if it did any result other than “it depends” would be a disservice to a client. One reason a lawyer is going to tell you “it depends” is because that is always the right answer in law. Look at SCOTUS and how many cases are narrowly decided by a split court 5-4. How could any lawyer, or app, tell anyone with any reliability what would happen in a case? In fact that point is codified in all the Bars which have rules prohibiting lawyers from making any guarantees to clients on the outcome of cases. For example, maybe a defendant doesn’t answer and a default judgement is entered, well that will cost substantially less than a case where the defendant answers with affirmative defense and files a counter suit...an app isnt going to be able to determine that anymore than a lawyer. If you want a SCATTERPLOT ok here it is, whether your case is civil/criminal there is a >90% chance it won’t go to trial/verdict, and in civil cases the majority of the 90% of cases resulting in settlement will be confidential...so data from >90% of cases isn’t available for a lawyer or app to use.

dragonwriter 8y ago
> Look at SCOTUS and how many cases are narrowly decided by a split court 5-4. Because it's a second-level appeals court with largely discretionary jurisdiction biased toward taking cases with unsettled questions of law (a factor which tends to weigh heavily in favor of them taking an appeal is a conflict between the circuit courts of appeal on a question of law), SCOTUS rulings are vastly deceptive on the degree to which legal outcomes are uncertain.
- will_brown 8y ago
  That’s just it SCOTUS is 9 Justices ruling on issues of law...Law...not fact, and yet they regularly find themselves split. But it’s beyond the point because rulings aren’t the point, the point is it’s impossible for any lawyer to tell a client how a case will go, because no one knows how a finding of fact will go. Pick 12 random people, have them watch a verifiable video of events and you will still have a split on the finding of fact. But let’s assume there is a case with no issue of fact...you still can’t tell a client how the case will go/what it will cost...again maybe it’s a default judgment, maybe it’s a case with significant discovery, maybe it will get referred to mediation and settle...the same case, the same facts, the same law, can have different outcomes and when trying to factor in costs the outcomes are infinite.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > That’s just it SCOTUS is 9 Justices ruling on issues of law...Law...not fact The Constitution disagrees. > yet they regularly find themselves split. The Supreme Court both passively and actively selects for cases that are on the edge. If it's not unusually uncertain, it's less likely to get even get to trial, less likely after that to be appealed from the trial court, less likely to have a petition for cert. filed after it's heard in the appeals court, and, in any case, near certain to have that petition denied even if it is filed. The Supreme Court selects for the most uncertain tiny fraction of a percent of all legal cases in the US. And, still, by a wide margin, the most common vote on cases decided on the merits is 9-0. Sure, 5-4 is the next most common and the 5-4 decisions get way more media coverage just by being 5-4 decisions, but 9-0 is still the most common.
    - will_brown 8y ago
      Note sure where you are taking this thread, you are right 9-0 is the most common vote, but the majority of all cases are still split, either way the point is...do you think you can readily tell clients the outcome and legal fees of a case given case? I think the answers will be no...it depends. Can you tell them it will result in a default judgment? Can you tell them how costly just the discovery process will be? Can you tell them if the trial court will be the end or if there will be an appeal? Can you tell them if they obtain a judgment if the will have to pursue collection of the judgement through yet more litigation?
gammateam 8y ago
a lawyer at their own discretion could charge a new client $1,000 to fill out the simple forms this app can create for you another $1,000 to give me the speech you just did, instead of a free consultation and thats a problem for people and this app helps with that

dragonwriter 8y ago

> Look at SCOTUS and how many cases are narrowly decided by a split court 5-4. Because it's a second-level appeals court with largely discretionary jurisdiction biased toward taking cases with unsettled questions of law (a factor which tends to weigh heavily in favor of them taking an appeal is a conflict between the circuit courts of appeal on a question of law), SCOTUS rulings are vastly deceptive on the degree to which legal outcomes are uncertain.

will_brown 8y ago
That’s just it SCOTUS is 9 Justices ruling on issues of law...Law...not fact, and yet they regularly find themselves split. But it’s beyond the point because rulings aren’t the point, the point is it’s impossible for any lawyer to tell a client how a case will go, because no one knows how a finding of fact will go. Pick 12 random people, have them watch a verifiable video of events and you will still have a split on the finding of fact. But let’s assume there is a case with no issue of fact...you still can’t tell a client how the case will go/what it will cost...again maybe it’s a default judgment, maybe it’s a case with significant discovery, maybe it will get referred to mediation and settle...the same case, the same facts, the same law, can have different outcomes and when trying to factor in costs the outcomes are infinite.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > That’s just it SCOTUS is 9 Justices ruling on issues of law...Law...not fact The Constitution disagrees. > yet they regularly find themselves split. The Supreme Court both passively and actively selects for cases that are on the edge. If it's not unusually uncertain, it's less likely to get even get to trial, less likely after that to be appealed from the trial court, less likely to have a petition for cert. filed after it's heard in the appeals court, and, in any case, near certain to have that petition denied even if it is filed. The Supreme Court selects for the most uncertain tiny fraction of a percent of all legal cases in the US. And, still, by a wide margin, the most common vote on cases decided on the merits is 9-0. Sure, 5-4 is the next most common and the 5-4 decisions get way more media coverage just by being 5-4 decisions, but 9-0 is still the most common.
  - will_brown 8y ago
    Note sure where you are taking this thread, you are right 9-0 is the most common vote, but the majority of all cases are still split, either way the point is...do you think you can readily tell clients the outcome and legal fees of a case given case? I think the answers will be no...it depends. Can you tell them it will result in a default judgment? Can you tell them how costly just the discovery process will be? Can you tell them if the trial court will be the end or if there will be an appeal? Can you tell them if they obtain a judgment if the will have to pursue collection of the judgement through yet more litigation?

gammateam 8y ago

a lawyer at their own discretion could charge a new client $1,000 to fill out the simple forms this app can create for you another $1,000 to give me the speech you just did, instead of a free consultation and thats a problem for people and this app helps with that