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Jaron supports premium payment for articles. I don’t know why so many hacker news readers both are illogically irate about paywalls and also irate about data co

Jaron supports premium payment for articles. I don’t know why so many hacker news readers both are illogically irate about paywalls and also irate about data collection. The irony is almost overwhelming.

malvosenior 8y ago
> I don’t know why so many hacker news readers both are illogically irate about paywalls and also irate about data collection. The irony is almost overwhelming. Because they're not the same HN users? I don't care at all about data collection but I abhor terrible UI such the modal ad in the original post.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > Because they're not the same HN users? This; people keep confusing conflicting vocal minorities with a minority with shared but incoherent preferences.
lazyjones 8y ago
> I don’t know why so many hacker news readers both are illogically irate about paywalls and also irate about data collection. I have no idea what you are rambling about. The dark pattern demonstrated behind the article link is modal newsletter subscription boxes in front of the content, i.e. distracting, disrupting the user's reading to show him something he didn't click the link for. It's annoying, it wastes time and energy and it makes the web unattractive like dumb clickbait headlines when following a descriptive link doesn't lead to the promised content (without extra effort).
Applejinx 8y ago
You can have your paywalls if you delete capitalism. Otherwise, you're forcing a population that's trying to survive with less and less capital, to choose what information sources they'll agree to keep open. Network effects come into play, and you end up with a system where only the top information sources can survive and there just isn't the public support for anything else. Ditch capitalism and treat money like something provided to people as a citizenship right (like a vote, or like UBI) and then maybe you can have paywalls and have enough superfluous capital that you'll have a functioning market that allows for challengers and alternate choices to persist. Right now, both paywalls and data collection are pushing things towards centralized solutions due to network effects (when you can search for the 'one best' thing worldwide, people generally will wish to do that) and the results of that are proving catastrophic. Capitalism merely underscores this mechanism and makes it seem mandatory that you will pay to serve the centralized systems that control you. Jaron's looking for more of a decentralized thing. If you asked him whether he supported a paywall for the 'BUMMER' stuff he talks about, he would hope that the paywall would bring down those systems, and he'd be afraid that the lock-in would be so great that it wouldn't matter.

malvosenior 8y ago

> I don’t know why so many hacker news readers both are illogically irate about paywalls and also irate about data collection. The irony is almost overwhelming. Because they're not the same HN users? I don't care at all about data collection but I abhor terrible UI such the modal ad in the original post.

dragonwriter 8y ago
> Because they're not the same HN users? This; people keep confusing conflicting vocal minorities with a minority with shared but incoherent preferences.

lazyjones 8y ago

> I don’t know why so many hacker news readers both are illogically irate about paywalls and also irate about data collection. I have no idea what you are rambling about. The dark pattern demonstrated behind the article link is modal newsletter subscription boxes in front of the content, i.e. distracting, disrupting the user's reading to show him something he didn't click the link for. It's annoying, it wastes time and energy and it makes the web unattractive like dumb clickbait headlines when following a descriptive link doesn't lead to the promised content (without extra effort).

Applejinx 8y ago

You can have your paywalls if you delete capitalism. Otherwise, you're forcing a population that's trying to survive with less and less capital, to choose what information sources they'll agree to keep open. Network effects come into play, and you end up with a system where only the top information sources can survive and there just isn't the public support for anything else. Ditch capitalism and treat money like something provided to people as a citizenship right (like a vote, or like UBI) and then maybe you can have paywalls and have enough superfluous capital that you'll have a functioning market that allows for challengers and alternate choices to persist. Right now, both paywalls and data collection are pushing things towards centralized solutions due to network effects (when you can search for the 'one best' thing worldwide, people generally will wish to do that) and the results of that are proving catastrophic. Capitalism merely underscores this mechanism and makes it seem mandatory that you will pay to serve the centralized systems that control you. Jaron's looking for more of a decentralized thing. If you asked him whether he supported a paywall for the 'BUMMER' stuff he talks about, he would hope that the paywall would bring down those systems, and he'd be afraid that the lock-in would be so great that it wouldn't matter.