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I left Google after three years as an SDE because I had really really had enough of my bosses, I wasn't promoted when I figured I deserved it, and a project tha
by johan_larson 8y ago
I left Google after three years as an SDE because I had really really had enough of my bosses, I wasn't promoted when I figured I deserved it, and a project that meant a lot to me wasn't getting the staffing it needed to succeed.
I left for a more senior position at a smaller, less prestigious software company, though I've moved again since. Right now I'm working remotely from Toronto for a Silicon Valley start-up.
Ultimately, I wish I had approached working for Google a bit differently. I thought it was sort of an overgrown startup, and you were supposed to look for something that needed doing and do it. No. Google is a large highly structured company with a distinctly process-oriented culture. It's a place where you do what you are told. That famous proverb about Japanese nails absolutely applies. I eventually figured that out, but by then it was too late.
- jacquesm 8y ago> That famous proverb about Japanese nails absolutely applies. "The nail that sticks out gets hammered down."
- tw1010 8y agoI'm guessing there are some "nail dimensions" that get hammered down, and some that are encouraged. (There are some anomalous characteristics that are accepted or incentivized, and some that are penalized.) I'm curious, could you (or someone in this thread working at google) help me understand which these are? Which weird character traits are ok, and which are not?
- riazrizvi 8y agoI’m going to make a guess here, but based on my experience of this type of culture at other organizations, weird character traits that are okay = anything unusual done by the very senior, generally-accepted-company-success-story people. So if you started a successful spin-off that Google funds and makes a ton of money from, then your penchant for rollerblading around the building is cute and HR smile when describing it to interviewees. However if you are one of the other 99.9% then get those damn things off your feet, your going to hurt someone.
- jexah 8y agoBe transgendered. Works for me.
- godelmachine 8y agoI was thinking - "Everything looks like to nail to someone who has a hammer"
- sunshinerag 8y agoWow so apt
- devmunchies 8y agoThe Chinese equivalent: the quacking duck gets shot.
- i_made_a_booboo 8y agoThat's brutal.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- zwayhowder 8y agoI love that proverb, but look at the flip side, the nail that sticks out gets pulled out and discarded.... Unless it's a coat hook. The lesson I think is if you're going to stick out, be useful.
- asaph 8y ago> I left Google after three years as an SDE Were you on a 4 year vest schedule for your stock grant at Google? If so, did you leave some money on the table?
- johan_larson 8y agoI don't remember, exactly. I think we had a one-year cliff at the time and then quarterly accrual. I definitely took a pay cut when I left, though.
- tonfa 8y agoIsn't it standard that grants are renewed yearly? If so you'll always be "leaving money on the table" (but then if you switch company you'd probably get a new grant, right?)
- hindsightRegret 8y agoAnd a juicy signing bonus. So yeah, it doesn't actually feel like leaving money on the table most times (unless the equity has appreciates 2x plus)
- brandmeyer 8y agoNothing is "standard". I've never talked to a startup that offered an equity refresh like GOOG does.
- chris11 8y agoWhy wouldn't companies offer an equity refresh? I view equity as part of my compensation. So if my compensation dropped after 4 years I'd consider it a paycut and start looking for a new job.
- mtlynch 8y agoGoogle gives equity refreshes once per year, so you always have unvested stock. They try to design comp to avoid situations where your total pay suddenly drops 4 years after your initial offer package fully vests.
- kamaal 8y ago>>I had really really had enough of my bosses Its curious how these companies claim they are totally different or even unique but just turn out to be the very same. >>I wasn't promoted when I figured I deserved it This is again one of those large company political things. Year long promotion packet building, lobbying your work with promotion committees, getting a willing boss, and doing other routine political ground work to set you up for one. Another big thing in these companies, every one joining has to go through a very arduous interviewing process, preparation for which can last weeks to months. So you have rockstars full in all teams, or at-least they like of themselves that way. Ultimately regardless whatever people might say about surrounding yourself with smart people, its never generally a great idea to surround yourself with smart competitors in a pyramid hierarchy.
- bizkitgto 8y agoBig companies are all this way, people don't realize it before they work in one - you are just a cog.
- tekstar 8y agoAlso, in a big company, culture is not homogeneous. Your direct manager and team will create their culture, with mild influence from the surrounding corporation.
- apohn 8y agoDefinitely this. I'm in a large org at a large company and there are drastic differences between groups because of managers. Simply changing groups can completely change your experience from a toxic team to a great one or vice versa. If a smaller company has a toxic culture or you have a toxic manager you may have no choice but to leave. Bad managers are everywhere!
- voltagex_ 8y agoJust to add to this, a good manager can insulate a team from problems "outside" that team, but there's a balance. Too much insulation and you'll disappear from everyone else's view (no more funding for you!), not enough and you'll become a dumping ground for people/problems/projects.
- CydeWeys 8y agoMy experience with Google has been the opposite, for what it's worth. I've been rewarded for, as an IC SWE, starting conversations with random people across the entire company to make things happen, and then executing on it. I even presented my launch at I/O this past May. I think it helps that I'm on a smaller team. So from my experience, it still very much seems like a "look for something that needs doing and do it" kind of place. Maybe too much freedom is granted, in that a lot of "boring" things are languishing that shouldn't be simply because no one is interested in (or rewarded for) doing them.
- bsimpson 8y agoIt seems to depend a lot on your team and your manager. It's the first place I've worked where the vibe is: "you're clever: find something useful to do" from my very first day.
- dlor 8y agoYes, this matches my experience as well. I've been at Google 6 years now in various SWE roles. I can count the number of times I've been directly asked to do something by anyone in my management chain on one hand.
- dhnsmakala 8y agoWhat are examples of things you took initiative on (without violating NDA or revealing personal details?) Are we talking about new major products/features? Did you join with past experience/at a senior level? What org/product area?
- dlor 8y agoIt's hard to explain, not because of NDA but because of context specific things. Almost everything I do is open source, but can't fit into a comment. My only advice to people at BigCo is to make sure you have a good reason for doing whatever it is you're doing. Your boss telling you to do something is not always a good reason to do it. And make sure you have some kind of metrics that show your work is important. If you're told to do something that you don't think is important, make sure you have metrics showing that your work is more important and do that.
- gwbas1c 8y ago> It's a place where you do what you are told In my career experience, that has more to do with understanding what really needs to be done, and what brings value to the company. I'm sure I've made some junior engineers feel that way after they tried to pull me into a long argument about brace styles, or after they wanted to refactor years of working code to use their favorite framework.