5 ms·

You think that's bad? I'm using Linux at work on a laptop specifically designed for Linux and it's been a nightmare to get even basic functions to work right.

by Osiris 8y ago

You think that's bad? I'm using Linux at work on a laptop specifically designed for Linux and it's been a nightmare to get even basic functions to work right. The computer immediately resumes after going to sleep, it took several days to get hibernation working, the nvidia driver keeps locking up the system, external monitors aren't automatically detected, after an apt upgrade, hibernation stops working because my EFI loader file gets overwritten and I can't figure out from where, I managed to completely break X after trying to get Optimus (GPU switching) to work, applications written in different GUI frameworks (QT, GTK) use different themes and even different mouse cursors, applets don't always show up, bluetooth crashes randomly, and the list goes on. Windows has annoyances, but Linux is like building a car in a garage full of car parts. Yes, you can build a working car, but you better be a mechanic.

m_mueller 8y ago
that's the reason why I went with Win+WSL in the first place, I feared all the driver crap. So... our choice now is between a great OS on laptops with next to no I/O and totally unacceptable keyboard, OR great hardware running on an OS that's put together with duct-tape and strings?
- setquk 8y ago
  Yes unfortunately that's about it. At this point, for me the best option is charge more and put up with windows being a dick periodically.
  - m_mueller 8y ago
    We really thought the future was great right around 2007 didn't we? You had nicely put together Macbooks that could run all the software you wanted, including from Windows and Linux land, they had pretty good support and overall decent hardware. Then they released the iPhone, SJ died, and everyone else in their management just started hunting either quarterly numbers or pretty&stupid design that works well for TV ads. It's a wonder that their software departments have actually turned around and started producing decent releases again. Here's to hope their Mac department will recover as well.
    - dm319 8y ago
      Stick some distros on a USB stick and give them a go. Your 480s should be fine with it if you're on Intel graphics. I'd recommend Ubuntu in whatever flavor appeals...
    - setquk 8y ago
      I'm not sure I ever liked the Mac hardware. I thought I did. TBH the old white plastic MacBooks running 10.4 was my last good experience. After that I bought a top end 2011 15" rMBP with 16Gb of RAM and 1TiB SSD. What do I use now? A second hand i5 T440, because it's more productive.
      - m_mueller 8y ago
        I started with a Powerbook 12inch. Totally fell in love with that thing. By far the best trackpad at the time, plus a very decent keyboard. It even had CD burner and expandable RAM in an incredibly tight package. From then on their hardware became worse with every iteration in some way or another - either it was graphics driver issues, thermals, faulty boards, or now completely crap I/O and keyboard. But IMO till 2016 they still had overall the better package than windows PCs, mostly thanks to a far superior OS.
      - v_lisivka 8y ago
        Try to install Fedora Linux on it. It should work okayish on such hardware, if you switch it to Mate desktop (Gnome 2 fork): https://getfedora.org/en/workstation/ https://getfedora.org/en/workstation/ .
    - guitarbill 8y ago
      Look, it sucks to find out there are thousands of devices, but none with the specific attributes you want. (I'm currently looking for a phone.) However, the (sad?) truth is for most people, MacBooks works just fine, but they aren't vocal about that. Personally, I thought I'd hate the new ones, but was given one for work, and it's fine - to the point where I bought one for home, too
      - 8y ago
Brakenshire 8y ago
Don’t use Linux with a laptop which has discrete graphics. I use Thinkpads with integrated graphics, and haven’t had a problem with drivers for a decade. I don’t use hibernation though, I just use standby.
- dm319 8y ago
  Agreed. So many things breaking are to do with the binary dgpu drivers, that issue goes away with intel. I've been running ubuntuMATE for years on my t450s. It is remarkably boring. The only things that don't work for me is the fingerprint reader and docking/undocking can be funny if done hot.
  - reitanqild 8y ago
    Docking just works on my Neon on Dell E74-something setup.
- mscasts 8y ago
  But.. if you want to game and/or do stuff like games programming, video rendering etc you kind of want discrete graphics.
  - guitarbill 8y ago
    If you want to do any of those things, Linux is already so niche that you probably know what you're getting yourself into. But for most people, the discrete graphics option is easier and more stable, but counter-intuitive - usually more power is better. So worth mentioning.
- Osiris 8y ago
  This is a System76 laptop which only puts Linux on their laptops, so it's specifically designed for it. The two mDP connectors are only connected to the Nvidia chip, so maybe the Intel IGP isn't powerful enough to drive 3 4k monitors at a time (4k internal, 2x 4k external).
  - 8y ago

by Osiris 8y ago

m_mueller 8y ago

that's the reason why I went with Win+WSL in the first place, I feared all the driver crap. So... our choice now is between a great OS on laptops with next to no I/O and totally unacceptable keyboard, OR great hardware running on an OS that's put together with duct-tape and strings?

setquk 8y ago
Yes unfortunately that's about it. At this point, for me the best option is charge more and put up with windows being a dick periodically.
- m_mueller 8y ago
  We really thought the future was great right around 2007 didn't we? You had nicely put together Macbooks that could run all the software you wanted, including from Windows and Linux land, they had pretty good support and overall decent hardware. Then they released the iPhone, SJ died, and everyone else in their management just started hunting either quarterly numbers or pretty&stupid design that works well for TV ads. It's a wonder that their software departments have actually turned around and started producing decent releases again. Here's to hope their Mac department will recover as well.
  - dm319 8y ago
    Stick some distros on a USB stick and give them a go. Your 480s should be fine with it if you're on Intel graphics. I'd recommend Ubuntu in whatever flavor appeals...
  - setquk 8y ago
    I'm not sure I ever liked the Mac hardware. I thought I did. TBH the old white plastic MacBooks running 10.4 was my last good experience. After that I bought a top end 2011 15" rMBP with 16Gb of RAM and 1TiB SSD. What do I use now? A second hand i5 T440, because it's more productive.
    - m_mueller 8y ago
      I started with a Powerbook 12inch. Totally fell in love with that thing. By far the best trackpad at the time, plus a very decent keyboard. It even had CD burner and expandable RAM in an incredibly tight package. From then on their hardware became worse with every iteration in some way or another - either it was graphics driver issues, thermals, faulty boards, or now completely crap I/O and keyboard. But IMO till 2016 they still had overall the better package than windows PCs, mostly thanks to a far superior OS.
    - v_lisivka 8y ago
      Try to install Fedora Linux on it. It should work okayish on such hardware, if you switch it to Mate desktop (Gnome 2 fork): https://getfedora.org/en/workstation/ https://getfedora.org/en/workstation/ .
  - guitarbill 8y ago
    Look, it sucks to find out there are thousands of devices, but none with the specific attributes you want. (I'm currently looking for a phone.) However, the (sad?) truth is for most people, MacBooks works just fine, but they aren't vocal about that. Personally, I thought I'd hate the new ones, but was given one for work, and it's fine - to the point where I bought one for home, too
    - 8y ago

Brakenshire 8y ago

Don’t use Linux with a laptop which has discrete graphics. I use Thinkpads with integrated graphics, and haven’t had a problem with drivers for a decade. I don’t use hibernation though, I just use standby.

dm319 8y ago
Agreed. So many things breaking are to do with the binary dgpu drivers, that issue goes away with intel. I've been running ubuntuMATE for years on my t450s. It is remarkably boring. The only things that don't work for me is the fingerprint reader and docking/undocking can be funny if done hot.
- reitanqild 8y ago
  Docking just works on my Neon on Dell E74-something setup.
mscasts 8y ago
But.. if you want to game and/or do stuff like games programming, video rendering etc you kind of want discrete graphics.
- guitarbill 8y ago
  If you want to do any of those things, Linux is already so niche that you probably know what you're getting yourself into. But for most people, the discrete graphics option is easier and more stable, but counter-intuitive - usually more power is better. So worth mentioning.
Osiris 8y ago
This is a System76 laptop which only puts Linux on their laptops, so it's specifically designed for it. The two mDP connectors are only connected to the Nvidia chip, so maybe the Intel IGP isn't powerful enough to drive 3 4k monitors at a time (4k internal, 2x 4k external).
- 8y ago