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I'm a relatively new Rustacean but surely that statement is hyperbole -- one of Rust's only drawbacks is it's learning curve. That statement more reflects how

I'm a relatively new Rustacean but surely that statement is hyperbole -- one of Rust's only drawbacks is it's learning curve. That statement more reflects how many feel (myself included) after working with rust for a little while, and internalizing the beneficial nature of the extra pain (being more strict about how you pass around memory, etc), and getting used to being more explicit. Also, other languages have difficulties that eclipse and are more endemic than rust's so there's probably consideration of that too.

steveklabnik 8y ago
It’s not really hyperbole; I don’t find Rust particularly painful. Heck, I used to say “rust will never be a good choice for web apps” but by now I’ve written several. Times change!
- wokwokwok 8y ago
  You can down vote this comment all you like, but it's just Steve's opinion, and you can't be wrong about your own opinion. :) However, this is, anecdotally, what people say after they start using rust heavily. I've heard it from quite a lot of people. It's like turning on all the jslint/tslint's as hard errors. Yes, it's painful to start with... but, as you relax, and let the compiler to the hard work of checking things, you can confidently write code without worrying about a certain entire set of domain concerns, because the tooling is taking care of it. Sure, I'd love it if there was a 'alt-enter, fix this' for rust errors in [my editor of choice for rust], and no one is saying, 'oh hey, rust is super easy to learn!'. ...but more and more (as the ecosystem matures) rust is being used to Get Stuff Done, not just to write little toys; and the people using it to Get Stuff Done aren't complaining about how hard it is, they're <3'ing it. (Of course, I disagree on the web-apps front; I feel like that's still very painful with the 15+ frameworks out there fighting / breaking changes / being abandoned; but at the very least its starting to look like a few plausible stable options are emerging; and I admit this is survivor-bias, where the people who didn't like it gave up before they started to get productive... but, I think the idea that 'rust is hard always' isn't true at all)
  - steveklabnik 8y ago
    Oh yeah, there’s still plenty of work to do. But it’s far closer than what I previously imagined was possible, that’s all I’m saying. You can see my HN comment history change over the years.
  - hardwaresofton 8y ago
    Hey just to add one more to the 15 web frameworks you've seen -- I've been using actix_web[0] but recently heard about tower[1] and want to give it a try very badly [0]: https://actix.rs/ https://actix.rs/ [1]: https://github.com/carllerche/tower-web https://github.com/carllerche/tower-web
- hardwaresofton 8y ago
  Hey I mean this in the nicest way, but I don't think you can think in an unbiased manner, your skill/involvement with rust is just too high. I read and enjoy a bunch of your articles when it gets posted here and in r/rust and you've been doing rust[0] too long to reasonably be in touch with what newcomers face IMO. To summarize, thanks for all your contributions to rust -- I still think I'm right about it being a tiny bit hard for newcomers :) [0]: https://words.steveklabnik.com/five-years-with-rust https://words.steveklabnik.com/five-years-with-rust
  - steveklabnik 8y ago
    I never said rust is easy for newcomers. I said that once you develop some skill, it’s not particularly onerous. (And, I interact with beginners all the time; I know that they struggle.)

steveklabnik 8y ago

It’s not really hyperbole; I don’t find Rust particularly painful. Heck, I used to say “rust will never be a good choice for web apps” but by now I’ve written several. Times change!

wokwokwok 8y ago
You can down vote this comment all you like, but it's just Steve's opinion, and you can't be wrong about your own opinion. :) However, this is, anecdotally, what people say after they start using rust heavily. I've heard it from quite a lot of people. It's like turning on all the jslint/tslint's as hard errors. Yes, it's painful to start with... but, as you relax, and let the compiler to the hard work of checking things, you can confidently write code without worrying about a certain entire set of domain concerns, because the tooling is taking care of it. Sure, I'd love it if there was a 'alt-enter, fix this' for rust errors in [my editor of choice for rust], and no one is saying, 'oh hey, rust is super easy to learn!'. ...but more and more (as the ecosystem matures) rust is being used to Get Stuff Done, not just to write little toys; and the people using it to Get Stuff Done aren't complaining about how hard it is, they're <3'ing it. (Of course, I disagree on the web-apps front; I feel like that's still very painful with the 15+ frameworks out there fighting / breaking changes / being abandoned; but at the very least its starting to look like a few plausible stable options are emerging; and I admit this is survivor-bias, where the people who didn't like it gave up before they started to get productive... but, I think the idea that 'rust is hard always' isn't true at all)
- steveklabnik 8y ago
  Oh yeah, there’s still plenty of work to do. But it’s far closer than what I previously imagined was possible, that’s all I’m saying. You can see my HN comment history change over the years.
- hardwaresofton 8y ago
  Hey just to add one more to the 15 web frameworks you've seen -- I've been using actix_web[0] but recently heard about tower[1] and want to give it a try very badly [0]: https://actix.rs/ https://actix.rs/ [1]: https://github.com/carllerche/tower-web https://github.com/carllerche/tower-web
hardwaresofton 8y ago
Hey I mean this in the nicest way, but I don't think you can think in an unbiased manner, your skill/involvement with rust is just too high. I read and enjoy a bunch of your articles when it gets posted here and in r/rust and you've been doing rust[0] too long to reasonably be in touch with what newcomers face IMO. To summarize, thanks for all your contributions to rust -- I still think I'm right about it being a tiny bit hard for newcomers :) [0]: https://words.steveklabnik.com/five-years-with-rust https://words.steveklabnik.com/five-years-with-rust
- steveklabnik 8y ago
  I never said rust is easy for newcomers. I said that once you develop some skill, it’s not particularly onerous. (And, I interact with beginners all the time; I know that they struggle.)