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> What if the lower class is getting simultaneously bigger and also better off? Do you think the bottom 10% is living as bad as they were in 1940? 1980? Things

> What if the lower class is getting simultaneously bigger and also better off? Do you think the bottom 10% is living as bad as they were in 1940? 1980? Things that used to be luxuries are now normal across all income brackets... That's a good thing. :-) Ah yeas, the good ole "TV's and refrigerators" argument[0]. They have luxuries! Even homeless people have cell phones, what a world! Now how about things that actually matter: * Housing * Healthcare * Education * Transportation * Income security All these things are less accessible now than they used to be. As for the "luxuries": when everyone is expected to have something, it's not a luxury anymore, it's a necessity. Before most people had a fridge and a car, daily grocery delivery and grocery stores a walk away were the norm. It isn't now because cars and fridges changed the infrastructure. You are screwed without either in most places (and yes, relying on McFoods instead of a fridge is "being screwed"). Public bathhouses aren't the norm because most people aren't homeless and have access to those at home. In that regard, the very poor are worse off than a hundred years ago when a lot of tenements didn't have showers/bathtubs[1]. Before everyone had a cell phone or a computer, people weren't expected to find jobs online. Now this is a requirement to be a member of the society in most cases. And so on, and so on. In short, "Poor people now have ________, so we're better off!" is a bad argument. If these people had good lives, you wouldn't call them poor. Their lives suck. Yes, in a different way than a 100 years ago. But back then, nobody would be out of job because they couldn't answer recruiters' email either. [0]https://everydayfeminism.com/2016/02/poor-people-having-nice-things/ https://everydayfeminism.com/2016/02/poor-people-having-nice... [1]https://journals.ku.edu/amerstud/article/download/2244/2203 https://journals.ku.edu/amerstud/article/download/2244/2203

manigandham 8y ago
What? More people across the entire world have more access to those things that actually matter than ever before in history. This is indisputable fact. There are also 7.5 billion people now so it's impossible to compare absolute numbers without looking at the actual billions who have been lifted out of poverty. There is greater inequality and that is a real problem, but the bottom is still rising, helped along by the very things you seem to mock. It's a really big stretch to say that some people are somehow worse off now than before because of a lack of public bathhouse (we do have public shelters and bathrooms) and lack of cell phones (we do have libraries, subsidized phones, social services, etc) and just comes off as disingenuous.
- romwell 8y ago
  >What? More people across the entire world have more access to those things I won't argue for the entire world, but I have some numbers for the US - all adjusted for inflation: - Housing: real-estate prices have increased 4x since the 40-s. The median age of purchasers jumped up by more than a decade.[1] - Healthcare: per-person spending has increased 9x since the 60's[2] - Education: the higher education cost has increased by at least a factor of 3x[3]; that article doesn't take into account mandatory fees and living expenses. Or that's 2x if you account for increase in salaries[4]. Should I even talk about jobs available to people without college degrees? You could support a family with a high school diploma back in the day. - Transportation: public transportation has been in decline in the US. It is by far less available to people today. Read this article for a bigger picture[5]. In particular, the section titled "Death of interurbans and streetcars". Car prices have remained somewhat stable[6], but that doesn't help people who can't afford one. They are really screwed in a society where car ownership is pretty much expected and public transportation is nonexistent, especially in the suburban areas and small towns. - Income security: it's hard to characterize that with a single number, but long story short - we are worse off now than in the 70's[7][8] --------- To sum it all up: in the past 5 decades, housing, healthcare, education have increased in cost several times, public transportation died, income stability is down the drain. To answer your question: >What? That. The comparison is not to middle ages here. --------- [1]https://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/23/how-much-housing-prices-have-risen-since-1940.html https://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/23/how-much-housing-prices-have... [2]https://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/23/heres-how-much-the-average-american-spends-on-health-care.html https://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/23/heres-how-much-the-average-a... [3]https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/29/how-much-college-tuition-has-increased-from-1988-to-2018.html https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/29/how-much-college-tuition-has... [4]https://college-education.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=005532 https://college-education.procon.org/view.resource.php?resou... [5]https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2018/08/how-america-killed-transit/568825/ https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2018/08/how-america-k... [6]https://wgntv.com/2016/04/25/the-average-car-now-costs-25449-how-much-was-a-car-the-year-you-were-born/ https://wgntv.com/2016/04/25/the-average-car-now-costs-25449... [7]See page 7 of: https://www.urban.org/sites/default/files/publication/32896/412000-Work-and-Income-Security-from-to--.PDF https://www.urban.org/sites/default/files/publication/32896/... [8]https://www.epi.org/publication/bp213/ https://www.epi.org/publication/bp213/

manigandham 8y ago

What? More people across the entire world have more access to those things that actually matter than ever before in history. This is indisputable fact. There are also 7.5 billion people now so it's impossible to compare absolute numbers without looking at the actual billions who have been lifted out of poverty. There is greater inequality and that is a real problem, but the bottom is still rising, helped along by the very things you seem to mock. It's a really big stretch to say that some people are somehow worse off now than before because of a lack of public bathhouse (we do have public shelters and bathrooms) and lack of cell phones (we do have libraries, subsidized phones, social services, etc) and just comes off as disingenuous.

romwell 8y ago
>What? More people across the entire world have more access to those things I won't argue for the entire world, but I have some numbers for the US - all adjusted for inflation: - Housing: real-estate prices have increased 4x since the 40-s. The median age of purchasers jumped up by more than a decade.[1] - Healthcare: per-person spending has increased 9x since the 60's[2] - Education: the higher education cost has increased by at least a factor of 3x[3]; that article doesn't take into account mandatory fees and living expenses. Or that's 2x if you account for increase in salaries[4]. Should I even talk about jobs available to people without college degrees? You could support a family with a high school diploma back in the day. - Transportation: public transportation has been in decline in the US. It is by far less available to people today. Read this article for a bigger picture[5]. In particular, the section titled "Death of interurbans and streetcars". Car prices have remained somewhat stable[6], but that doesn't help people who can't afford one. They are really screwed in a society where car ownership is pretty much expected and public transportation is nonexistent, especially in the suburban areas and small towns. - Income security: it's hard to characterize that with a single number, but long story short - we are worse off now than in the 70's[7][8] --------- To sum it all up: in the past 5 decades, housing, healthcare, education have increased in cost several times, public transportation died, income stability is down the drain. To answer your question: >What? That. The comparison is not to middle ages here. --------- [1]https://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/23/how-much-housing-prices-have-risen-since-1940.html https://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/23/how-much-housing-prices-have... [2]https://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/23/heres-how-much-the-average-american-spends-on-health-care.html https://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/23/heres-how-much-the-average-a... [3]https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/29/how-much-college-tuition-has-increased-from-1988-to-2018.html https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/29/how-much-college-tuition-has... [4]https://college-education.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=005532 https://college-education.procon.org/view.resource.php?resou... [5]https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2018/08/how-america-killed-transit/568825/ https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2018/08/how-america-k... [6]https://wgntv.com/2016/04/25/the-average-car-now-costs-25449-how-much-was-a-car-the-year-you-were-born/ https://wgntv.com/2016/04/25/the-average-car-now-costs-25449... [7]See page 7 of: https://www.urban.org/sites/default/files/publication/32896/412000-Work-and-Income-Security-from-to--.PDF https://www.urban.org/sites/default/files/publication/32896/... [8]https://www.epi.org/publication/bp213/ https://www.epi.org/publication/bp213/