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your typical consumer will receive very little or no direct benefit from this change Eh? I've shopped at Uniqlo in SF. Compared to buying clothes at hipster bo

your typical consumer will receive very little or no direct benefit from this change Eh? I've shopped at Uniqlo in SF. Compared to buying clothes at hipster boutiques, it was shockingly affordable. I'd say whatever they are doing is unquestionably offering a direct benefit to the consumer.

DrNuke 8y ago
Which is very silly, in the end: I am thrilled while thinking how many iPhones Apple will sell worldwide once we have 6.9 billion people unemployed.
- lotsofpulp 8y ago
  What is silly is not taxing the economic efficiency reaped by capital owners and re-distributing it members of society so that they don't need to be employed.
nerdponx 8y ago
You already receive that benefit. Will prices go down as a result of this automation? Will the freed resources be cleanly rerouted to other activities? Hell no, if there wasn't an article you'd never have noticed.
- stickfigure 8y ago
  Will prices go down as a result of this automation? They almost certainly will; that's just ECON101. I'm sure H&M and Zara aren't just sitting around admiring themselves in the mirror. Clothing is a weird market but there is definitely an elastic low-end and Uniqlo is playing in that space. There's no reason to believe the rules of basic economics are not functioning.
  - zaccus 8y ago
    Prices are set to maximize revenue. Most companies aren't going to lower prices just because they can afford to; cost savings should (and usually do) go to shareholders.
    - Kalium 8y ago
      You're right! Costs savings, in isolation, will invariably go to highly privileged shareholders. With that said, what do you think happens when a second company in the same sector starts to realize the same cost savings, and realizes they can move more units by using the cost savings to lower prices and ultimately return even more to shareholders? Again, you're completely right. Companies don't lower prices out of the goodness of their cold, black, capitalist hearts. Yet, might there be other factors at work here?
- EpicEng 8y ago
  >Will prices go down as a result of this automation? Can you name a single instance where prices did _not_ go down due to automation? You're saying process won't go down tomorrow, but of course that's not how any of this works.
  - lovich 8y ago
    Prices don't go down unless there is competition. If a company figures our a way to make massive cost savings while their competition does not, they pocket that margin and use it to either invest in more productive capacity or give back to shareholders. They don't feel some ethical need to lower prices just because they can Automation is correlated with cost savings for consumers because usually the competition can figure out the same thing after seeing another player do it. It's a mistake to think they are causally related
    - ALittleLight 8y ago
      >Prices don't go down unless there is competition Prices also go down if it will lead to more profit. If you can sell 2.1 times as many widgets selling at half the profit then of course you will.
    - PeterisP 8y ago
      Well, sure, "if a company figures our a way to make massive cost savings while their competition does not" - but Uniqlo isn't that unique; nothing that they have done here is something that's fundamentally impossible for their competition to implement as well, it's just a question of appropriate investment. Yes, there's no reason for them to lower the prices right now, but that will result in mid-term (3-5 years) price decreases in the industry.
    - EpicEng 8y ago
      >If a company figures our a way to make massive cost savings while their competition does not, they pocket that margin and use it to either invest in more productive capacity or give back to shareholders. Well sure, but in what world is that going to happen in here? They didn't invent time travel; they automated a factory. This can be replicated. They may also lower prices simply to undercut competitors if they think the increase in volume will work out to more profits overall.
- sanxiyn 8y ago
  > Will prices go down ... you'd never have noticed. Note that these two are entirely compatible. Prices routinely go down and customers receive benefit but they do not notice. For example, I wrote about research on effect of barcode scanner here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11414435 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11414435
  - nerdponx 8y ago
    Interesting, thank you.
- cpsempek 8y ago
  Pocketing extra margin dollars is not necessarily profit maximizing. As other have pointed out, depending on where their customers (and currently priced out customers) are on the demand curve, reducing prices could increase profits. I expect Uniqlo to seek to maximize profits.
Vinnl 8y ago
But that's only the case for consumers with income. People who can only do jobs that machines can do better will have no income, so once a lot of people are in that situation, we will need to find a way to provide those people with at least the income required to be able to buy even the cheapest clothes.

DrNuke 8y ago

Which is very silly, in the end: I am thrilled while thinking how many iPhones Apple will sell worldwide once we have 6.9 billion people unemployed.

lotsofpulp 8y ago
What is silly is not taxing the economic efficiency reaped by capital owners and re-distributing it members of society so that they don't need to be employed.

nerdponx 8y ago

You already receive that benefit. Will prices go down as a result of this automation? Will the freed resources be cleanly rerouted to other activities? Hell no, if there wasn't an article you'd never have noticed.

stickfigure 8y ago
Will prices go down as a result of this automation? They almost certainly will; that's just ECON101. I'm sure H&M and Zara aren't just sitting around admiring themselves in the mirror. Clothing is a weird market but there is definitely an elastic low-end and Uniqlo is playing in that space. There's no reason to believe the rules of basic economics are not functioning.
- zaccus 8y ago
  Prices are set to maximize revenue. Most companies aren't going to lower prices just because they can afford to; cost savings should (and usually do) go to shareholders.
  - Kalium 8y ago
    You're right! Costs savings, in isolation, will invariably go to highly privileged shareholders. With that said, what do you think happens when a second company in the same sector starts to realize the same cost savings, and realizes they can move more units by using the cost savings to lower prices and ultimately return even more to shareholders? Again, you're completely right. Companies don't lower prices out of the goodness of their cold, black, capitalist hearts. Yet, might there be other factors at work here?
EpicEng 8y ago
>Will prices go down as a result of this automation? Can you name a single instance where prices did _not_ go down due to automation? You're saying process won't go down tomorrow, but of course that's not how any of this works.
- lovich 8y ago
  Prices don't go down unless there is competition. If a company figures our a way to make massive cost savings while their competition does not, they pocket that margin and use it to either invest in more productive capacity or give back to shareholders. They don't feel some ethical need to lower prices just because they can Automation is correlated with cost savings for consumers because usually the competition can figure out the same thing after seeing another player do it. It's a mistake to think they are causally related
  - ALittleLight 8y ago
    >Prices don't go down unless there is competition Prices also go down if it will lead to more profit. If you can sell 2.1 times as many widgets selling at half the profit then of course you will.
  - PeterisP 8y ago
    Well, sure, "if a company figures our a way to make massive cost savings while their competition does not" - but Uniqlo isn't that unique; nothing that they have done here is something that's fundamentally impossible for their competition to implement as well, it's just a question of appropriate investment. Yes, there's no reason for them to lower the prices right now, but that will result in mid-term (3-5 years) price decreases in the industry.
  - EpicEng 8y ago
    >If a company figures our a way to make massive cost savings while their competition does not, they pocket that margin and use it to either invest in more productive capacity or give back to shareholders. Well sure, but in what world is that going to happen in here? They didn't invent time travel; they automated a factory. This can be replicated. They may also lower prices simply to undercut competitors if they think the increase in volume will work out to more profits overall.
sanxiyn 8y ago
> Will prices go down ... you'd never have noticed. Note that these two are entirely compatible. Prices routinely go down and customers receive benefit but they do not notice. For example, I wrote about research on effect of barcode scanner here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11414435 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11414435
- nerdponx 8y ago
  Interesting, thank you.
cpsempek 8y ago
Pocketing extra margin dollars is not necessarily profit maximizing. As other have pointed out, depending on where their customers (and currently priced out customers) are on the demand curve, reducing prices could increase profits. I expect Uniqlo to seek to maximize profits.

Vinnl 8y ago

But that's only the case for consumers with income. People who can only do jobs that machines can do better will have no income, so once a lot of people are in that situation, we will need to find a way to provide those people with at least the income required to be able to buy even the cheapest clothes.