4 ms·

No they haven't. They've said from the beginning that if it looks like a security, smells like a security, walks like a security and talks like a security, then

No they haven't. They've said from the beginning that if it looks like a security, smells like a security, walks like a security and talks like a security, then it's a security. It's people trying to play the, "Well, it's different cause it's on a computer!" game that are muddying the waters.

wpietri 8y ago
That's my impression too. Emily Post had this great rant on how people act like every new technology is exempt from the rules. Her examples at the time was the cellphone in movie theaters. Everybody knew not to talk loudly in the movie theater before the arrival of cellphones, but suddenly plenty of people thought it was ok to a) have a ringing phone, and b) answer it. Eventually everybody got it together again and nobody does that anymore. People figured out how to generalize politeness for the new technology. It seems like the same deal here. Investment regulation applies when you're selling a piece of your operation. It still will.
- CryptoPunk 8y ago
  The scale of filesharing was irreversibly expanded by the internet, and in particular, by BitTorrent. Some technologies fundamentally change the difficulty of enforcing prohibitions against particular types of activity.
  - wpietri 8y ago
    If the analogy you're drawing is mp3s to money, it's not a good one. Money has been digital much longer than music; SWIFT was formed in 1973. [1] The MICR E13B font, the machine-readable numbers seen at the bottom of every check, was adopted as a standard in 1958. [2] Further, since cryptocurrency's use in actual commerce is a rounding error, I don't think cryptocurrencies are even at the mp3 level yet. To be useful to most people, cryptocurrencies need to be turned into real money, which makes enforcement easy enough. It's especially easy here, in that ICOs are big public launches. Really, anything taking significant amounts of money from non-accredited investors needs to be quite public, because individually they don't have much money. Which again, makes enforcement easy. And also makes it clearly under the domain of the SEC unless they are careful to exclude American investors. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_for_Worldwide_Interbank_Financial_Telecommunication https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_for_Worldwide_Interban... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_ink_character_recognition#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_ink_character_recogni...
    - CryptoPunk 8y ago
      No I was making a more general point: that technology can fundamentally and irreversibly change the relationship between people and the government, resulting in certain classes of laws becoming easier or harder to enforce.
      - wpietri 8y ago
        Did this general point have some relevance to the discussion? If not, I would like to take this opportunity to point out that water is generally wet, and that food can fundamentally taste good.
        CryptoPunk 8y ago
        It's directly relevant to your point that technology has a honeymoon period of being exempt from the rules before the rules adapt to reimpose the previously in place controls. I was saying that's not the universal progression.

wpietri 8y ago

That's my impression too. Emily Post had this great rant on how people act like every new technology is exempt from the rules. Her examples at the time was the cellphone in movie theaters. Everybody knew not to talk loudly in the movie theater before the arrival of cellphones, but suddenly plenty of people thought it was ok to a) have a ringing phone, and b) answer it. Eventually everybody got it together again and nobody does that anymore. People figured out how to generalize politeness for the new technology. It seems like the same deal here. Investment regulation applies when you're selling a piece of your operation. It still will.

CryptoPunk 8y ago
The scale of filesharing was irreversibly expanded by the internet, and in particular, by BitTorrent. Some technologies fundamentally change the difficulty of enforcing prohibitions against particular types of activity.
- wpietri 8y ago
  If the analogy you're drawing is mp3s to money, it's not a good one. Money has been digital much longer than music; SWIFT was formed in 1973. [1] The MICR E13B font, the machine-readable numbers seen at the bottom of every check, was adopted as a standard in 1958. [2] Further, since cryptocurrency's use in actual commerce is a rounding error, I don't think cryptocurrencies are even at the mp3 level yet. To be useful to most people, cryptocurrencies need to be turned into real money, which makes enforcement easy enough. It's especially easy here, in that ICOs are big public launches. Really, anything taking significant amounts of money from non-accredited investors needs to be quite public, because individually they don't have much money. Which again, makes enforcement easy. And also makes it clearly under the domain of the SEC unless they are careful to exclude American investors. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_for_Worldwide_Interbank_Financial_Telecommunication https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_for_Worldwide_Interban... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_ink_character_recognition#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_ink_character_recogni...
  - CryptoPunk 8y ago
    No I was making a more general point: that technology can fundamentally and irreversibly change the relationship between people and the government, resulting in certain classes of laws becoming easier or harder to enforce.
    - wpietri 8y ago
      Did this general point have some relevance to the discussion? If not, I would like to take this opportunity to point out that water is generally wet, and that food can fundamentally taste good.
      - CryptoPunk 8y ago
        It's directly relevant to your point that technology has a honeymoon period of being exempt from the rules before the rules adapt to reimpose the previously in place controls. I was saying that's not the universal progression.