7 ms·

Just to help me clarify, the tariffs that are being levied between China and America, do or do not also apply to Taiwan? I’ve never fully understood how the sep

Just to help me clarify, the tariffs that are being levied between China and America, do or do not also apply to Taiwan? I’ve never fully understood how the separation of Taiwan and China is made since it seems to be such a touchy subject.

DoofusOfDeath 8y ago
Most of the world considers Taiwan (a.k.a. "Republic of China") to be a distinct country. The mainland Chinese government disagrees. I don't know about these particular tariffs, but I believe the U.S. would not consider tariffs aimed at (mainland) China to apply to Taiwan.
- Symmetry 8y ago
  The RoC consider themselves the rightful "China" too. Some Taiwanese politicians have advocated declaring themselves an independent country but that's never been the official government position.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - baybal2 8y ago
    Eh? Chen Shuibian did declare independence, like 10 times
  - e3b0c 8y ago
    > The RoC consider themselves the rightful "China" too. That's a minority/extremity opinion which isn't remotely prevalent even among those who feel intimate with China. It used to be the 'political-correct' belief held by the former authoritarian ruling party. But it's not considered a rational worldview anymore after its democratic modernization.
- zanmat0 8y ago
  Most of the world? Not in any official sense.
  - ardy42 8y ago
    > Most of the world? Not in any official sense. There are things that are de facto true, even if they're not de jure true.
    - commandar 8y ago
      One things that can be confusing/frustrating to many people about geopolitics is that there's a substantial body of "agreed upon" fiction. These are positions that are held officially by numerous, competing state actors that, while factually untrue, hold value to each. The status of Taiwan is one. Israel's nuclear status is another famous example. While the common sense reaction is "everybody knows it, why pretend?" those fictions generally exist because they help maintain delicate balances and order between parties that are generally at odds with one another. What it comes down to is that it'd be lovely if we could all just say openly and outright that mainland China and Taiwan are separate entities, because, in practice, they are. But it's also pretty swimming for the global community for the PPRC and ROC to both claim that they're the real China while everyone does business with each other anyway. So while it's true that they're distinct and it's also true that everyone knows that to be the case, everyone also wins out to varying degrees by officially pretending that it isn't the case.
gervase 8y ago
In general, the US maintains unofficial diplomatic relations with Taiwan, which means that although the US does not officially recognize the government of Taiwan, it is subject to different tariffs than those imposed on China. Similarly, tariffs imposed by Taiwan are set by the ROC, not the PRC, and therefore are totally distinct from this trade war. More information can be found in this position statement from the Department of State: https://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/35855.htm https://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/35855.htm
- partingshots 8y ago
  Interesting, so in that case, does Taiwan benefit from this ongoing trade war, or is the heightened tension and fear of political/military escalation nullifying any benefit that might be felt?
  - nabla9 8y ago
    > Taiwan benefit from this ongoing trade war Taiwan is hurt indirectly. Taiwan has invested heavily on the mainland China and manufactures there. Many Chinese products exported to US have very low Chinese value added. Chinese manufacturer buys Taiwanese, Japanese or US made components, assembles them and sell them to the US. For many high-tech products, Chinese value added may be just 20% of the price of the product. Chinese tariffs hit everyone in the value chain. Even the US.
  - e3b0c 8y ago
    For companies, those who have much bigger stakes in China are suffering (e.g., Foxconn). But there are also companies benefiting from the trade war since they don't incur the extra cost like their China-based competitors. The companies like TSMC are barely affected since they have a reasonably low percentage of yields in China. For labor/domestic businesses in general, they benefit from it like India and other SEA countries because the global supply chains are coming to diversify and they are attracting more manufacturing investment now.
    - ksec 8y ago
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
AnimalMuppet 8y ago
Just after World War II, the Communists took over China from the previous government. The previous government ran to the island of Taiwan, which had been part of China. If I understand correctly, you now have two different governments, one on the mainland and one on Taiwan, both of which claim to be the government of China, and both of which claim to rule all of China, and both of which claim that there is only one China. Other nations play pretend to various degrees, trying to placate (mainland) China without too much swallowing their own pride in not being China's lapdogs. But they're effectively two separate countries. So: The tariffs being applied to China do not apply to Taiwan. However, Trump seems to be throwing tariffs at several targets lately; he may or may not have applied some to Taiwan.
- lolc 8y ago
  The current government of Taiwan does not claim sovereignty over the mainland. They still call themselves "Republic of China" though. Indeed most countries do not recognize Taiwan to placate the mainland regime which adheres to the "One China" policy of threatening war over official separation by Taiwan. Sometimes you wonder how things can stay broken for so long.
  - ethbro 8y ago
    > Sometimes you wonder how things can stay broken for so long. Taiwan doesn't want the mainland's government, and the mainland doesn't want Taiwan's government. If Hong Kong had been militarily defensible, it'd be in the same situation.
    - skissane 8y ago
      > If Hong Kong had been militarily defensible, it'd be in the same situation. If the UK had really wanted to keep Hong Kong, could it have militarily defended it? No doubt the geography is less than favourable; but, keeping in mind that UK and PRC are nuclear powers, would regaining Hong Kong be worth the risk of war between two nuclear states? PRC might well have decided it wasn't worth that risk. But in reality, the UK had no real interest in keeping Hong Kong, and were more than happy to hand it over to PRC. (Yes, there was a treaty saying they had to give back a big chunk after 99 years, but if the UK really wanted to get out of that, they could have found a solution – e.g. if they hadn't switched recognition from ROC to PRC, they could have asked ROC for a lease extension. Or, they could have made their switch of recognition from ROC to PRC conditional on PRC granting them perpetual sovereignty over the whole of Hong Kong.)
philipodonnell 8y ago
Its up to the US who to put its own import tariffs on, so the US can just say "imports from China" but not directly from Taiwan. China may be able to force import tariffs on goods imported by Taiwan (idk not an expert) but I bet Taiwan imports relatively little directly from the US?
TazeTSchnitzel 8y ago
Since both Chinas claim the entirety of China including Taiwan, no government can officially recognise both. But in practice that means governments recognise one China officially and deal with the other unofficially. Taiwan obviously is not under the PRC government's control and the US tariffs don't apply to it. The US is a close ally of Taiwan.
- sho 8y ago
  > The US is a close ally of Taiwan Heh. Exactly how close an ally is yet to be tested in any meaningful way. No U.S. aircraft carrier group has transited the Taiwan Strait since 2007. Some would forecast that no U.S. carrier group will transit - or finish transiting - that strait ever again.
  - dbuder 8y ago
    I wouldn't be so sure, sounds like the kind of thing El Presidente would do.
ww520 8y ago
When it comes to China, it's best to think of dealing with governments than land mass. Both Chinese governments claim the entirety of the Chinese land mass. Trump's tariffs are levied against the government People's Republic of China. Taiwan's government is Republic of China, which is not a target of the tariffs.

DoofusOfDeath 8y ago

Most of the world considers Taiwan (a.k.a. "Republic of China") to be a distinct country. The mainland Chinese government disagrees. I don't know about these particular tariffs, but I believe the U.S. would not consider tariffs aimed at (mainland) China to apply to Taiwan.

Symmetry 8y ago
The RoC consider themselves the rightful "China" too. Some Taiwanese politicians have advocated declaring themselves an independent country but that's never been the official government position.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- baybal2 8y ago
  Eh? Chen Shuibian did declare independence, like 10 times
- e3b0c 8y ago
  > The RoC consider themselves the rightful "China" too. That's a minority/extremity opinion which isn't remotely prevalent even among those who feel intimate with China. It used to be the 'political-correct' belief held by the former authoritarian ruling party. But it's not considered a rational worldview anymore after its democratic modernization.
zanmat0 8y ago
Most of the world? Not in any official sense.
- ardy42 8y ago
  > Most of the world? Not in any official sense. There are things that are de facto true, even if they're not de jure true.
  - commandar 8y ago
    One things that can be confusing/frustrating to many people about geopolitics is that there's a substantial body of "agreed upon" fiction. These are positions that are held officially by numerous, competing state actors that, while factually untrue, hold value to each. The status of Taiwan is one. Israel's nuclear status is another famous example. While the common sense reaction is "everybody knows it, why pretend?" those fictions generally exist because they help maintain delicate balances and order between parties that are generally at odds with one another. What it comes down to is that it'd be lovely if we could all just say openly and outright that mainland China and Taiwan are separate entities, because, in practice, they are. But it's also pretty swimming for the global community for the PPRC and ROC to both claim that they're the real China while everyone does business with each other anyway. So while it's true that they're distinct and it's also true that everyone knows that to be the case, everyone also wins out to varying degrees by officially pretending that it isn't the case.

gervase 8y ago

In general, the US maintains unofficial diplomatic relations with Taiwan, which means that although the US does not officially recognize the government of Taiwan, it is subject to different tariffs than those imposed on China. Similarly, tariffs imposed by Taiwan are set by the ROC, not the PRC, and therefore are totally distinct from this trade war. More information can be found in this position statement from the Department of State: https://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/35855.htm https://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/35855.htm

partingshots 8y ago
Interesting, so in that case, does Taiwan benefit from this ongoing trade war, or is the heightened tension and fear of political/military escalation nullifying any benefit that might be felt?
- nabla9 8y ago
  > Taiwan benefit from this ongoing trade war Taiwan is hurt indirectly. Taiwan has invested heavily on the mainland China and manufactures there. Many Chinese products exported to US have very low Chinese value added. Chinese manufacturer buys Taiwanese, Japanese or US made components, assembles them and sell them to the US. For many high-tech products, Chinese value added may be just 20% of the price of the product. Chinese tariffs hit everyone in the value chain. Even the US.
- e3b0c 8y ago
  For companies, those who have much bigger stakes in China are suffering (e.g., Foxconn). But there are also companies benefiting from the trade war since they don't incur the extra cost like their China-based competitors. The companies like TSMC are barely affected since they have a reasonably low percentage of yields in China. For labor/domestic businesses in general, they benefit from it like India and other SEA countries because the global supply chains are coming to diversify and they are attracting more manufacturing investment now.
  - ksec 8y ago

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

AnimalMuppet 8y ago

Just after World War II, the Communists took over China from the previous government. The previous government ran to the island of Taiwan, which had been part of China. If I understand correctly, you now have two different governments, one on the mainland and one on Taiwan, both of which claim to be the government of China, and both of which claim to rule all of China, and both of which claim that there is only one China. Other nations play pretend to various degrees, trying to placate (mainland) China without too much swallowing their own pride in not being China's lapdogs. But they're effectively two separate countries. So: The tariffs being applied to China do not apply to Taiwan. However, Trump seems to be throwing tariffs at several targets lately; he may or may not have applied some to Taiwan.

lolc 8y ago
The current government of Taiwan does not claim sovereignty over the mainland. They still call themselves "Republic of China" though. Indeed most countries do not recognize Taiwan to placate the mainland regime which adheres to the "One China" policy of threatening war over official separation by Taiwan. Sometimes you wonder how things can stay broken for so long.
- ethbro 8y ago
  > Sometimes you wonder how things can stay broken for so long. Taiwan doesn't want the mainland's government, and the mainland doesn't want Taiwan's government. If Hong Kong had been militarily defensible, it'd be in the same situation.
  - skissane 8y ago
    > If Hong Kong had been militarily defensible, it'd be in the same situation. If the UK had really wanted to keep Hong Kong, could it have militarily defended it? No doubt the geography is less than favourable; but, keeping in mind that UK and PRC are nuclear powers, would regaining Hong Kong be worth the risk of war between two nuclear states? PRC might well have decided it wasn't worth that risk. But in reality, the UK had no real interest in keeping Hong Kong, and were more than happy to hand it over to PRC. (Yes, there was a treaty saying they had to give back a big chunk after 99 years, but if the UK really wanted to get out of that, they could have found a solution – e.g. if they hadn't switched recognition from ROC to PRC, they could have asked ROC for a lease extension. Or, they could have made their switch of recognition from ROC to PRC conditional on PRC granting them perpetual sovereignty over the whole of Hong Kong.)

philipodonnell 8y ago

Its up to the US who to put its own import tariffs on, so the US can just say "imports from China" but not directly from Taiwan. China may be able to force import tariffs on goods imported by Taiwan (idk not an expert) but I bet Taiwan imports relatively little directly from the US?

TazeTSchnitzel 8y ago

Since both Chinas claim the entirety of China including Taiwan, no government can officially recognise both. But in practice that means governments recognise one China officially and deal with the other unofficially. Taiwan obviously is not under the PRC government's control and the US tariffs don't apply to it. The US is a close ally of Taiwan.

sho 8y ago
> The US is a close ally of Taiwan Heh. Exactly how close an ally is yet to be tested in any meaningful way. No U.S. aircraft carrier group has transited the Taiwan Strait since 2007. Some would forecast that no U.S. carrier group will transit - or finish transiting - that strait ever again.
- dbuder 8y ago
  I wouldn't be so sure, sounds like the kind of thing El Presidente would do.

ww520 8y ago

When it comes to China, it's best to think of dealing with governments than land mass. Both Chinese governments claim the entirety of the Chinese land mass. Trump's tariffs are levied against the government People's Republic of China. Taiwan's government is Republic of China, which is not a target of the tariffs.