8 ms·

Had an interesting conversation if you have been involved in any ICO sales and live in North America, seek legal counsel immediately. Do not listen to idiots te

Had an interesting conversation if you have been involved in any ICO sales and live in North America, seek legal counsel immediately. Do not listen to idiots telling you this is good for the space, they don't know just how much reach SEC has when it comes to securities fraud. The investigation will likely span many years but they will eventually get to your ICO and will hit you with wire fraud and felony, which won't go away and it will impact your employment and possibly overseas travel. If you were one of those companies that helped ICO launches, there's a good chance you will see jail time accordingly. Remember, the SEC has the manpower and allegedly a technology to uncloak elaborate laundering on the open ledger, which opens up a whole new can of worms called anti-money laundering orgs that become activated. Im glad I walked away from ICOs.

empath75 8y ago
I would be very surprised if anyone not engaged in fraud or tax evasion or money laundering saw jail time. Of course, that leaves like 2 ICOs.
gamblor956 8y ago
The SEC can't impose jail time as punishment for securities law violations, as their tools are limited to civil sanctions (see, e.g., the slam dunk case they had against Elon Musk). However...they can refer cases to the DOJ for criminal prosecution (see Martha Stewart, Elizabeth Holmes, etc.).
- f8diamvwF4al 8y ago
  This is correct. Even on things that obviously skirted the law like Ethereum and Ripple, which at one time or another the SEC has said, "Yeah, basically a security," everyone seems to have gotten off scot-free. Ethereum went on to be hailed as a major financial innovation and was never fined [1], while Ripple had to pay a $700k fine and continues to contend with lawsuits [2][3]. Ironically, one of the former government attorneys creating regulations is now working with Ripple against the US government (Ben Lawsky), along with former SEC chair Mary Jo White. When the price of Bitcoin isn't going up, sentiment in here sure changes. [1] https://ethereumworldnews.com/sec-chairman-clarifies-the-comments-on-ethereum-eth-were-non-binding-and-not-the-law/ https://ethereumworldnews.com/sec-chairman-clarifies-the-com... [2] https://www.businessinsider.com/ripple-just-got-slapped-with-a-700000-fine-2015-5 https://www.businessinsider.com/ripple-just-got-slapped-with... [3] https://www.xrpchat.com/topic/26151-ripple-lawsuit-tracker-august-2018-update/ https://www.xrpchat.com/topic/26151-ripple-lawsuit-tracker-a...
147 8y ago
You're saying if somebody is an engineer at a company that helps launches ICOs they should be worried?
- dabockster 8y ago
  Ethics aside, yeah they should be worried. The "I was only following orders" claim usually only applies when those orders were lawful.
  - isoskeles 8y ago
    Ah yes, the moment I have long awaited: linking cryptocurrency back to the Nazis.
  - jimmaswell 8y ago
    So every single employee of a corporation is expected to triple check that everything they're told to do is legally bulletproof, having to duplicate the work of the entire legal department? That's ridiculous, especially with how many laws and regulations are unpredictable, unexpected, unintuitive, hard to understand, etc.
    - bilbo0s 8y ago
      Employees are not responsible for every legally questionable thing their company does. That said, I mean, of course a person is responsible for any crimes they may have personally committed. It doesn't matter that your company told you to do it. To believe the law would work any other way is incredibly naive. If this really is how people are thinking about ICO's, then I would strongly urge anyone with possible involvement to go consult briefly with an attorney about that involvement now. Just to better understand how things work. Because right now there is some pretty bad information floating around. If your lawyer recommends it, then get out in front of the problem. You may even be able to reach a settlement with the SEC. (Which, needless to say, is far better than having to reach a "deal" with the DOJ.)
      - 8y ago
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eaurouge 8y ago
You went from some interesting conversation you had, to the SEC’s reach wrt securities fraud, to ICOs committing wire fraud and felonies, to probabilities of jail time etc. All without actually saying anything of substance. Why is this person’s imagination the top voted comment on what could be an interesting discussion?

empath75 8y ago

I would be very surprised if anyone not engaged in fraud or tax evasion or money laundering saw jail time. Of course, that leaves like 2 ICOs.

gamblor956 8y ago

The SEC can't impose jail time as punishment for securities law violations, as their tools are limited to civil sanctions (see, e.g., the slam dunk case they had against Elon Musk). However...they can refer cases to the DOJ for criminal prosecution (see Martha Stewart, Elizabeth Holmes, etc.).

f8diamvwF4al 8y ago
This is correct. Even on things that obviously skirted the law like Ethereum and Ripple, which at one time or another the SEC has said, "Yeah, basically a security," everyone seems to have gotten off scot-free. Ethereum went on to be hailed as a major financial innovation and was never fined [1], while Ripple had to pay a $700k fine and continues to contend with lawsuits [2][3]. Ironically, one of the former government attorneys creating regulations is now working with Ripple against the US government (Ben Lawsky), along with former SEC chair Mary Jo White. When the price of Bitcoin isn't going up, sentiment in here sure changes. [1] https://ethereumworldnews.com/sec-chairman-clarifies-the-comments-on-ethereum-eth-were-non-binding-and-not-the-law/ https://ethereumworldnews.com/sec-chairman-clarifies-the-com... [2] https://www.businessinsider.com/ripple-just-got-slapped-with-a-700000-fine-2015-5 https://www.businessinsider.com/ripple-just-got-slapped-with... [3] https://www.xrpchat.com/topic/26151-ripple-lawsuit-tracker-august-2018-update/ https://www.xrpchat.com/topic/26151-ripple-lawsuit-tracker-a...

147 8y ago

You're saying if somebody is an engineer at a company that helps launches ICOs they should be worried?

dabockster 8y ago
Ethics aside, yeah they should be worried. The "I was only following orders" claim usually only applies when those orders were lawful.
- isoskeles 8y ago
  Ah yes, the moment I have long awaited: linking cryptocurrency back to the Nazis.
- jimmaswell 8y ago
  So every single employee of a corporation is expected to triple check that everything they're told to do is legally bulletproof, having to duplicate the work of the entire legal department? That's ridiculous, especially with how many laws and regulations are unpredictable, unexpected, unintuitive, hard to understand, etc.
  - bilbo0s 8y ago
    Employees are not responsible for every legally questionable thing their company does. That said, I mean, of course a person is responsible for any crimes they may have personally committed. It doesn't matter that your company told you to do it. To believe the law would work any other way is incredibly naive. If this really is how people are thinking about ICO's, then I would strongly urge anyone with possible involvement to go consult briefly with an attorney about that involvement now. Just to better understand how things work. Because right now there is some pretty bad information floating around. If your lawyer recommends it, then get out in front of the problem. You may even be able to reach a settlement with the SEC. (Which, needless to say, is far better than having to reach a "deal" with the DOJ.)
    - 8y ago

deleted 8y ago

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deleted 8y ago
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eaurouge 8y ago

You went from some interesting conversation you had, to the SEC’s reach wrt securities fraud, to ICOs committing wire fraud and felonies, to probabilities of jail time etc. All without actually saying anything of substance. Why is this person’s imagination the top voted comment on what could be an interesting discussion?