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>North Korea, the poorest country on earth, has demonstrated how it can be done by anyone. North Korea is not even close to being as poor as the reputation bes

>North Korea, the poorest country on earth, has demonstrated how it can be done by anyone. North Korea is not even close to being as poor as the reputation bestowed upon it by the US establishment. If it were, space rockets and nukes would simply have been out of the question (as they were in the 90s). You don't tend to find the best rocket scientists living in mud huts. It's still hardly a rich country but industrially they're surprisingly profligate and while their famous famine weighs heavily upon them (esp. in the form of stunted heights) it was 25 years ago. About the only thing there is still a massive, visceral shortage of is oil (because embargoes).

leadingthenet 8y ago
Welp, we posted an almost identical comment at the same time.
- crdoconnor 8y ago
  haha so we did. did you visit too?
  - leadingthenet 8y ago
    Unfortunately not, but I'd love to in the near future. What was your experience on the ground?
vondur 8y ago
No, they are fairly poor. Just look at the GDP list from the United Nations in 2016: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nomi... I'm sure it's worse now at the embargoes have really started to bite. It looks like they may be dropping their nuclear weapons, which if done, most of the sanctions would probably be dropped.
- jdck1326 8y ago
  But there's a difference between being middle of the pack (113/211) and being one of the poorest countries. I'd also argue that GDP isn't a great measure of NK's wealth.
- crdoconnor 8y ago
  Those numbers are a joke. They're the most secretive country in the world and they don't really share economic data. It really can't be overstated just how much wild guesswork is involved in coming up with those figures. An economist weighs in here: https://www.38north.org/2012/07/rfrank071612/ https://www.38north.org/2012/07/rfrank071612/ Moreover, most institutions will systematically under rather than overestimate their economic activity from what scraps of data they do have. You wouldn't, after all, win political capital in the UN or the CIA by declaring the north korean economic model to be more successful than it really is... nobody wants to hear that.
- mandevil 8y ago
  North Korea is not dropping it's nuclear weapons. No country that has ever tested 1 weapon- leave alone 6, and gotten to quite sophisticated designs- has ever given them up, and North Korea will not be the first. Also, the embargoes are weaker now than they were a year ago, so I'm not sure that I would say that they have really started to bite. China and Russia both backed off the pressure after the Singapore summit, and their cooperation is essential for an effective embargo.
  - MichaelMoser123 8y ago
    # No country that has ever tested 1 weapon- leave alone 6, and gotten to quite sophisticated designs- has ever given them up South Africa did give up its nuclear weapons. Complete disarmament.
    - mandevil 8y ago
      Number of tests South Africa conducted[1]: 0 Number of levitated pits that South Africa tested: 0 I don't know why you think this comment was disagreeing with what I said. [1]: Like most observers today, I think that the Vela Incident was not a RSA test. I tend to think it was not a nuclear test at all, which does differ from the majority opinion.

leadingthenet 8y ago

Welp, we posted an almost identical comment at the same time.

crdoconnor 8y ago
haha so we did. did you visit too?
- leadingthenet 8y ago
  Unfortunately not, but I'd love to in the near future. What was your experience on the ground?

vondur 8y ago

No, they are fairly poor. Just look at the GDP list from the United Nations in 2016: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nomi... I'm sure it's worse now at the embargoes have really started to bite. It looks like they may be dropping their nuclear weapons, which if done, most of the sanctions would probably be dropped.

jdck1326 8y ago
But there's a difference between being middle of the pack (113/211) and being one of the poorest countries. I'd also argue that GDP isn't a great measure of NK's wealth.
crdoconnor 8y ago
Those numbers are a joke. They're the most secretive country in the world and they don't really share economic data. It really can't be overstated just how much wild guesswork is involved in coming up with those figures. An economist weighs in here: https://www.38north.org/2012/07/rfrank071612/ https://www.38north.org/2012/07/rfrank071612/ Moreover, most institutions will systematically under rather than overestimate their economic activity from what scraps of data they do have. You wouldn't, after all, win political capital in the UN or the CIA by declaring the north korean economic model to be more successful than it really is... nobody wants to hear that.
mandevil 8y ago
North Korea is not dropping it's nuclear weapons. No country that has ever tested 1 weapon- leave alone 6, and gotten to quite sophisticated designs- has ever given them up, and North Korea will not be the first. Also, the embargoes are weaker now than they were a year ago, so I'm not sure that I would say that they have really started to bite. China and Russia both backed off the pressure after the Singapore summit, and their cooperation is essential for an effective embargo.
- MichaelMoser123 8y ago
  # No country that has ever tested 1 weapon- leave alone 6, and gotten to quite sophisticated designs- has ever given them up South Africa did give up its nuclear weapons. Complete disarmament.
  - mandevil 8y ago
    Number of tests South Africa conducted[1]: 0 Number of levitated pits that South Africa tested: 0 I don't know why you think this comment was disagreeing with what I said. [1]: Like most observers today, I think that the Vela Incident was not a RSA test. I tend to think it was not a nuclear test at all, which does differ from the majority opinion.