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Agreed. (Still not quite as bad as the Adobe Reader updates, though. My god.) Hopefully you'll have the option to use Java on OS X packaged like it is on Lin

by bdb 16y ago

Agreed. (Still not quite as bad as the Adobe Reader updates, though. My god.) Hopefully you'll have the option to use Java on OS X packaged like it is on Linux.

alexknight 16y ago
Apple has given no indication that they won't allow users to install Java runtime straight from the source itself. They're merely saying that they won't ship it with the OS anymore.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- com 16y ago
  But a big part of this issue is the upcoming Mac App Store. The rule that's been floated is apps cannot be based on "deprecated or optionally-installed technologies". This makes a lot of sense, dependency hell and all the other related things proprietary platforms do so poorly (I'm looking at you, Microsoft) are seriously improved with such a rule. Just think of the lower number of trouble tickets and irritated customers. Straight from the source means ... ta-da! "Optionally installed". Therefore, no Java-based apps in the Mac App Store. Bad for Java app developers on the Mac - Apple's app store is likely to be a very good channel for sales - unless Oracle step up to the plate with a (cross-platform) app store. But good luck with that - it won't be so visible, cross-platform apps are generally dodgy, and it doesn't have Steve Job's magic pixie dust.
  - redthrowaway 16y ago
    Yeah, I seriously doubt we'll be seeing Java make a big splash in the Mac Store. It's not that the UI is inherently bad, but rather that the "Mac experience" demands something tailored to that platform, which defeats the purpose of Jave in the first place. Java is great in that an app will run the same on WinXP or Win7 or MacOSX or Ubuntu. Unfortunately, Apple doesn't want an app that looks and runs the same on OSX as it does on WinXP. I wouldn't be surprised to see them bring in Objective C as the Mac Standard, and treat most other development ecosystems as second-class citizens.
    - kaffiene 16y ago
      Apple are the arch facists
  - kls 16y ago
    Bad for Java app developers on the Mac I find it hard to see the issue, if you are using Java to build an app you are developing a Java app not an OSX app. You are targeting a different run-time than a standard OSX app. To me it is no different than Apple saying you can't sell an Adobe Air app in the app store. or a C# app running on Mono. I see a very valid reason why Apple would instate such a policy. Even though in the past Apple supplied the run-time for Java it still did not make it OSX it was just a very well tailored JRE for OSX, you still write Java apps and not OSX apps if you target the JRE.

by bdb 16y ago

Agreed. (Still not quite as bad as the Adobe Reader updates, though. My god.) Hopefully you'll have the option to use Java on OS X packaged like it is on Linux.

alexknight 16y ago

Apple has given no indication that they won't allow users to install Java runtime straight from the source itself. They're merely saying that they won't ship it with the OS anymore.

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
com 16y ago
But a big part of this issue is the upcoming Mac App Store. The rule that's been floated is apps cannot be based on "deprecated or optionally-installed technologies". This makes a lot of sense, dependency hell and all the other related things proprietary platforms do so poorly (I'm looking at you, Microsoft) are seriously improved with such a rule. Just think of the lower number of trouble tickets and irritated customers. Straight from the source means ... ta-da! "Optionally installed". Therefore, no Java-based apps in the Mac App Store. Bad for Java app developers on the Mac - Apple's app store is likely to be a very good channel for sales - unless Oracle step up to the plate with a (cross-platform) app store. But good luck with that - it won't be so visible, cross-platform apps are generally dodgy, and it doesn't have Steve Job's magic pixie dust.
- redthrowaway 16y ago
  Yeah, I seriously doubt we'll be seeing Java make a big splash in the Mac Store. It's not that the UI is inherently bad, but rather that the "Mac experience" demands something tailored to that platform, which defeats the purpose of Jave in the first place. Java is great in that an app will run the same on WinXP or Win7 or MacOSX or Ubuntu. Unfortunately, Apple doesn't want an app that looks and runs the same on OSX as it does on WinXP. I wouldn't be surprised to see them bring in Objective C as the Mac Standard, and treat most other development ecosystems as second-class citizens.
  - kaffiene 16y ago
    Apple are the arch facists
- kls 16y ago
  Bad for Java app developers on the Mac I find it hard to see the issue, if you are using Java to build an app you are developing a Java app not an OSX app. You are targeting a different run-time than a standard OSX app. To me it is no different than Apple saying you can't sell an Adobe Air app in the app store. or a C# app running on Mono. I see a very valid reason why Apple would instate such a policy. Even though in the past Apple supplied the run-time for Java it still did not make it OSX it was just a very well tailored JRE for OSX, you still write Java apps and not OSX apps if you target the JRE.