4 ms·

And we don't have guys out executing jews and other minorities while trashing their temples and churches. How far off the mark would I be in guessing you're no

And we don't have guys out executing jews and other minorities while trashing their temples and churches. How far off the mark would I be in guessing you're not a minority in America? Jason Van Dyke, a Chicago police officer was just convicted of 2nd degree murder and sixteen counts of aggravated battery with a fire arm of a black man in a time when more and more black Americans feel scared for their lives simply being in the presence of a police officer (I happen to be one of them) and Dylan Roof was given the death penalty for killing nine black parishioners at a church in my hometown of Charleston South Carolina three years ago. These are by no means the only examples I can give you.

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xvedejas 8y ago
Statistics have to come before anecdotes. I'm not really disagreeing with you, but we live in an era with many more people and much more open dialogue. It's easier to find countless stories of minority abuse, regardless of the actual prevalence. I don't know how many stories of the 1930s we have never heard because nobody was left to chronicle them...
- iamdave 8y ago
  Statistics have to come before anecdotes Point conceded, even if the two examples I gave are two of the highest profile events in the last five years speaking on the topic of minority repression in America, they are symptoms of a larger disease. But point conceded. I'll play along and gladly provide sources and statistics if you'd like, I seem to have made a faulty assumption that these issues I pointed to were speaking for themselves rather loudly and the volumes of data would be readily available to anyone inclined to look for them. There's much more recency to this discussion than what happened in as you put it "the 1930s"
  - xvedejas 8y ago
    It's kind of a sad, losing game to compare atrocities from different time periods, and then task ourselves with saying "this time period was worse than that time period". Unfortunately, it's the game we must play to determine whether things are really getting better over time. Since most crimes of repression were not reported in the past, it becomes a game of asking "which book has more words per page?" when one book is water-damaged and the other is burned to ash. I guess any claim that isn't too certain is reasonable.
ams6110 8y ago
I took bilbo0s comment to mean we do not have formal government policy and programs to imprison and execute a race of people. We do have a few wackos here and there which is unavoidable.
- iamdave 8y ago
  There may not be formal government programs that presriptively sanction the murder and decimation of minority communities by the American constabulary but the law also historically has given merit to "disparate impact". Furthermore Van Dyke's conviction came with mitigating factors that I will passionately argue create the conditions for disparate impact when black Americans are killed by state actors in the form of local police officers. This IMO supersedes any argument that we lack government policy that sanctions police brutality and points to a direct need for police reform which is the root of a statement like "Black lives matter".
glafa 8y ago
This year in Chicago there has been 457 (around 350 blacks) killed, how many have the police killed in Chicago? 4 this year. The crime rate is the biggest problem not the cops in minority areas. I understand the fear of cops and I do believe in self policing but for the black community the biggest problem is rampant crime.
- ivraatiems 8y ago
  What do you believe causes the rampant crime?
  - mullingitover 8y ago
    Poverty[1]: For the period 2008-12- - Persons in poor households at or below the Federal Poverty Level (FPL) (39.8 per 1,000) had more than double the rate of violent victimization as persons in high-income households (16.9 per 1,000). - Persons in poor households had a higher rate of violence involving a firearm (3.5 per 1,000) compared to persons above the FPL (0.8-2.5 per 1,000). - The overall pattern of poor persons having the highest rates of violent victimization was consistent for both whites and blacks. However, the rate of violent victimization for Hispanics did not vary across poverty levels. - Poor Hispanics (25.3 per 1,000) had lower rates of violence compared to poor whites (46.4 per 1,000) and poor blacks (43.4 per 1,000). - Poor persons living in urban areas (43.9 per 1,000) had violent victimization rates similar to poor persons living in rural areas (38.8 per 1,000). - Poor urban blacks (51.3 per 1,000) had rates of violence similar to poor urban whites (56.4 per 1,000). [1] https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=5137 https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=5137
    - ivraatiems 8y ago
      I agree, in part. According to the latest government data, as of 2017 21% of African Americans and 18% of Hispanics are living in poverty. Only about 10% of Asian Americans and 8.7% of whites are in poverty.[1] To what would you attribute the racial disparity in poverty rates? (Naturally I have an opinion, but I'm withholding it because I want to understand your approach to this.) [1] http://federalsafetynet.com/us-poverty-statistics.html http://federalsafetynet.com/us-poverty-statistics.html citing https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2018/demo/p60-263.html https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2018/demo/p60-26...

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xvedejas 8y ago

Statistics have to come before anecdotes. I'm not really disagreeing with you, but we live in an era with many more people and much more open dialogue. It's easier to find countless stories of minority abuse, regardless of the actual prevalence. I don't know how many stories of the 1930s we have never heard because nobody was left to chronicle them...

iamdave 8y ago
Statistics have to come before anecdotes Point conceded, even if the two examples I gave are two of the highest profile events in the last five years speaking on the topic of minority repression in America, they are symptoms of a larger disease. But point conceded. I'll play along and gladly provide sources and statistics if you'd like, I seem to have made a faulty assumption that these issues I pointed to were speaking for themselves rather loudly and the volumes of data would be readily available to anyone inclined to look for them. There's much more recency to this discussion than what happened in as you put it "the 1930s"
- xvedejas 8y ago
  It's kind of a sad, losing game to compare atrocities from different time periods, and then task ourselves with saying "this time period was worse than that time period". Unfortunately, it's the game we must play to determine whether things are really getting better over time. Since most crimes of repression were not reported in the past, it becomes a game of asking "which book has more words per page?" when one book is water-damaged and the other is burned to ash. I guess any claim that isn't too certain is reasonable.

ams6110 8y ago

I took bilbo0s comment to mean we do not have formal government policy and programs to imprison and execute a race of people. We do have a few wackos here and there which is unavoidable.

iamdave 8y ago
There may not be formal government programs that presriptively sanction the murder and decimation of minority communities by the American constabulary but the law also historically has given merit to "disparate impact". Furthermore Van Dyke's conviction came with mitigating factors that I will passionately argue create the conditions for disparate impact when black Americans are killed by state actors in the form of local police officers. This IMO supersedes any argument that we lack government policy that sanctions police brutality and points to a direct need for police reform which is the root of a statement like "Black lives matter".

glafa 8y ago

This year in Chicago there has been 457 (around 350 blacks) killed, how many have the police killed in Chicago? 4 this year. The crime rate is the biggest problem not the cops in minority areas. I understand the fear of cops and I do believe in self policing but for the black community the biggest problem is rampant crime.

ivraatiems 8y ago
What do you believe causes the rampant crime?
- mullingitover 8y ago
  Poverty[1]: For the period 2008-12- - Persons in poor households at or below the Federal Poverty Level (FPL) (39.8 per 1,000) had more than double the rate of violent victimization as persons in high-income households (16.9 per 1,000). - Persons in poor households had a higher rate of violence involving a firearm (3.5 per 1,000) compared to persons above the FPL (0.8-2.5 per 1,000). - The overall pattern of poor persons having the highest rates of violent victimization was consistent for both whites and blacks. However, the rate of violent victimization for Hispanics did not vary across poverty levels. - Poor Hispanics (25.3 per 1,000) had lower rates of violence compared to poor whites (46.4 per 1,000) and poor blacks (43.4 per 1,000). - Poor persons living in urban areas (43.9 per 1,000) had violent victimization rates similar to poor persons living in rural areas (38.8 per 1,000). - Poor urban blacks (51.3 per 1,000) had rates of violence similar to poor urban whites (56.4 per 1,000). [1] https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=5137 https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=5137
  - ivraatiems 8y ago
    I agree, in part. According to the latest government data, as of 2017 21% of African Americans and 18% of Hispanics are living in poverty. Only about 10% of Asian Americans and 8.7% of whites are in poverty.[1] To what would you attribute the racial disparity in poverty rates? (Naturally I have an opinion, but I'm withholding it because I want to understand your approach to this.) [1] http://federalsafetynet.com/us-poverty-statistics.html http://federalsafetynet.com/us-poverty-statistics.html citing https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2018/demo/p60-263.html https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2018/demo/p60-26...