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One thing that stands out to me in the photograph at the top of the piece is that so many of the crowd are smiling. I always thought of such salutes as a seriou

by mprev 8y ago

One thing that stands out to me in the photograph at the top of the piece is that so many of the crowd are smiling. I always thought of such salutes as a serious, even fearful, thing. I know it is fiction but The Man in the High Castle on Amazon certainly has everyone looking very grave when giving the salute.

ocschwar 8y ago
In the 1920s, Americans used that salute in the Pledge of Allegiance. It was called the Bellamy salute. It's mind warping to realize, but every symbol and word that we associate with the Nazis and Fascists had innocuous connotations until the Nazis corrupted them. The swastika, the fasces, the Hugo Boss uniforms, the salutes, the word "Nazi" (nickname for rural Bavarians), the word "Fascist" (Sicilian labor militants before WW1), the names Mussolini, Adolf, Hitler, none of those things had any scary associations before that era.
- te_chris 8y ago
  Some of the American symbolism user by the Nazis is actually a bit more than coincidental: this New Yorker article details a lot of the American racism that inspired Hitler https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/04/30/how-american-racism-influenced-hitler https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/04/30/how-american-r...
- posterboy 8y ago
  Fasci is Italian for bundles and associated with insignia of a sheaf of hay or rods, adorned with an ax carried before a magistrate in processions. So, no, it wasn't completely benign before either. However, the militant associations you mention were "fascista", specifically "partitio fascista rivoluzionario", and I don't exactly speak Italian so I couldn't tell if the meaning was ambiguous, or rather, what the ambiguity is. fascio it also meant burden, load; high office in Latin. Compare German "Bürde" (burden) and "Würde" (dignity, honour, your honour). The root would be basket, via Celtic, whose symbolism with the Celtish Knots is loaded with wicker work imagery. Compare also braided military shoulder signs of rank. Quite wicked. Fashism is, in my humble opinion, related to fashion, French façon (way; manner; fashion) although that's said to be from faciō (do, make; compare fact), cognate with do, believe it or not. That makes sense because cloth is woven, or rather coarsely braided at times. In case of facio, it would come via factiō, factiōnem, whence also faction. That would give "Jeder nach seiner Facon" a nuance comparable to "Jedem das seine". See also: Lt. vas (vessel; bail, surety); fiction, fingere, fingo; face (capitalism), fagot, fossil, irish cognate to fashion (neck tie, leash), Fessel, fetter, fesseln, Fass, vas, fassen, erfassen, ergreifen. Pulverfass - pulp (pulp fiction - coke stories). French fascher (now fâcher), from Latin fastus (“disdain”). Fastenzeit, fascher mittwoch; Fasten. Fasten seatbelt. Fast food. Mode droge. fingo, Fink, Finca. Sphinx. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fascio#Italian https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fascio#Italian https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fascis#Latin https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fascis#Latin

by mprev 8y ago

ocschwar 8y ago

In the 1920s, Americans used that salute in the Pledge of Allegiance. It was called the Bellamy salute. It's mind warping to realize, but every symbol and word that we associate with the Nazis and Fascists had innocuous connotations until the Nazis corrupted them. The swastika, the fasces, the Hugo Boss uniforms, the salutes, the word "Nazi" (nickname for rural Bavarians), the word "Fascist" (Sicilian labor militants before WW1), the names Mussolini, Adolf, Hitler, none of those things had any scary associations before that era.

te_chris 8y ago
Some of the American symbolism user by the Nazis is actually a bit more than coincidental: this New Yorker article details a lot of the American racism that inspired Hitler https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/04/30/how-american-racism-influenced-hitler https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/04/30/how-american-r...
posterboy 8y ago
Fasci is Italian for bundles and associated with insignia of a sheaf of hay or rods, adorned with an ax carried before a magistrate in processions. So, no, it wasn't completely benign before either. However, the militant associations you mention were "fascista", specifically "partitio fascista rivoluzionario", and I don't exactly speak Italian so I couldn't tell if the meaning was ambiguous, or rather, what the ambiguity is. fascio it also meant burden, load; high office in Latin. Compare German "Bürde" (burden) and "Würde" (dignity, honour, your honour). The root would be basket, via Celtic, whose symbolism with the Celtish Knots is loaded with wicker work imagery. Compare also braided military shoulder signs of rank. Quite wicked. Fashism is, in my humble opinion, related to fashion, French façon (way; manner; fashion) although that's said to be from faciō (do, make; compare fact), cognate with do, believe it or not. That makes sense because cloth is woven, or rather coarsely braided at times. In case of facio, it would come via factiō, factiōnem, whence also faction. That would give "Jeder nach seiner Facon" a nuance comparable to "Jedem das seine". See also: Lt. vas (vessel; bail, surety); fiction, fingere, fingo; face (capitalism), fagot, fossil, irish cognate to fashion (neck tie, leash), Fessel, fetter, fesseln, Fass, vas, fassen, erfassen, ergreifen. Pulverfass - pulp (pulp fiction - coke stories). French fascher (now fâcher), from Latin fastus (“disdain”). Fastenzeit, fascher mittwoch; Fasten. Fasten seatbelt. Fast food. Mode droge. fingo, Fink, Finca. Sphinx. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fascio#Italian https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fascio#Italian https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fascis#Latin https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fascis#Latin