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This sounds strangely familiar in relation to what is occurring within the USA. I wonder if the same play book is being used today in my country, the USA.

by jtr_47 8y ago

claydavisss 8y ago
Just waiting for a comment like this to appear. Last time I checked, the last President to roll out tanks against American citizens was Bill Clinton. Oh wait, during the Obama administration, ranchers in Oregon were also threatened by the government and ultimately prevailed in court. "Fascist" today is used in the same way "Counter-revolutionary" was used by Bolsheviks in the early Soviet Union - simply anyone who disagrees with the mob. I would be interested in hearing instances of state-planned violence against citizens in present day America that comes close to what happened in Waco. Please don't cite immigrants in cages or Gitmo - both were in full force for eight years of a "progressive" Presidency. edit: as predicted, downvotes and no responses
- pjc50 8y ago
  The family separation policy that led to children in cages was definitely a Trump administration policy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_administration_family_separation_policy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_administration_family_se... Waco was a law enforcement disaster, but one typical of US law enforcement rather than a partisan issue. The policy of distributing MRAP vehicles to police forces has resulted in other victims: https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2011/08/31/actor-steven-seagal-sued-for-driving-tank-into-arizona-home-killing-puppy/#6aaf65a97489 https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2011/08/31/actor-steve... The entire BLM movement is against state violence by US law enforcement. It's a longstanding problem. The Oregon ranchers did not prevail in court, they were pardoned by Trump: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44775113 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44775113
  - artificial 8y ago
    If the policy lead to children in cages why were the pictures that lead to the outrage from years prior?
    - ChristianBundy 8y ago
      Source please.
      - artificial 8y ago
        Since I'm in a time crunch: https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/may/29/donald-trump/trump-correctly-tweets-democrats-mistakenly-tweete/ https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/may...
        ChristianBundy 8y ago
        Thank you!
      - novembermike 8y ago
        It looks like it's accurate. https://www.businessinsider.com/migrant-children-in-cages-2014-photos-explained-2018-5 https://www.businessinsider.com/migrant-children-in-cages-20...
    - merpnderp 8y ago
      Remarkable that those pictures which were falsely attributed to Trump are still consider a fact by anyone. If we actually had journalists instead of partisan with bylines, people might know those pictures were from Obama's tenure. Worst era of journalism ever.
  - patrickg_zill 8y ago
    What year were the first extant photos of kids in cages taken?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- decker 8y ago
  Did you predict downvotes and no response based on how vague and baiting your comment is?
Cthulhu_ 8y ago
It sorta is, but it's different enough that it's not ringing enough alarm bells internationally. It's also happening in Poland atm (whole government + judiciary branch is controlled by the right / far-right atm, and while the EU is trying to punish them for it (revoking their EU voting rights), apparently the punishment requires a unanimous vote and there's one country (Bulgaria?) not voting for that.), and will soon in Brazil with a right-wing leader having a fair shot at winning the second round of elections - and he's a terrible person and getting away with it. History repeating, etc. Just subtly different, and from the other side of the fence. Mind you, the US never has been "the good guys", the country was invaded and the natives murdered and displaced massively (that's called "genocide") by colonists, slavery, etc. In WW2 they had concentration camps (for the Japanese), after 9/11 they have concentration camps (for "enemy combatants"), in all cases blatantly flaunting international law and getting away with it without any consequences.
- AnimalMuppet 8y ago
  Not the good guys, but (in recent years, for the most part) less bad. The US had concentration camps in World War II. They did not have a policy of deliberately killing people in those camps. So, yes, the same (there were camps), and yet really different in a fundamental way that really mattered. Yes, it was wrong. No, it wasn't the same as Germany.
bilbo0s 8y ago
>This sounds strangely familiar in relation to what is occurring within the USA... Not quite. There are no concentration camps in the United States. And we don't have guys out executing jews and other minorities while trashing their temples and churches. EDIT: Oops. iamdave below makes a very good point that people are out executing minorities and attacking their churches. (In fact, a few enterprising numbskulls are out doing both at the same time.) That was a miss on my part. Extremely bad example.
- iamdave 8y ago
  And we don't have guys out executing jews and other minorities while trashing their temples and churches. How far off the mark would I be in guessing you're not a minority in America? Jason Van Dyke, a Chicago police officer was just convicted of 2nd degree murder and sixteen counts of aggravated battery with a fire arm of a black man in a time when more and more black Americans feel scared for their lives simply being in the presence of a police officer (I happen to be one of them) and Dylan Roof was given the death penalty for killing nine black parishioners at a church in my hometown of Charleston South Carolina three years ago. These are by no means the only examples I can give you.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - xvedejas 8y ago
    Statistics have to come before anecdotes. I'm not really disagreeing with you, but we live in an era with many more people and much more open dialogue. It's easier to find countless stories of minority abuse, regardless of the actual prevalence. I don't know how many stories of the 1930s we have never heard because nobody was left to chronicle them...
    - iamdave 8y ago
      Statistics have to come before anecdotes Point conceded, even if the two examples I gave are two of the highest profile events in the last five years speaking on the topic of minority repression in America, they are symptoms of a larger disease. But point conceded. I'll play along and gladly provide sources and statistics if you'd like, I seem to have made a faulty assumption that these issues I pointed to were speaking for themselves rather loudly and the volumes of data would be readily available to anyone inclined to look for them. There's much more recency to this discussion than what happened in as you put it "the 1930s"

This sounds strangely familiar in relation to what is occurring within the USA. I wonder if the same play book is being used today in my country, the USA.

by jtr_47 8y ago

This sounds strangely familiar in relation to what is occurring within the USA. I wonder if the same play book is being used today in my country, the USA.

claydavisss 8y ago

Just waiting for a comment like this to appear. Last time I checked, the last President to roll out tanks against American citizens was Bill Clinton. Oh wait, during the Obama administration, ranchers in Oregon were also threatened by the government and ultimately prevailed in court. "Fascist" today is used in the same way "Counter-revolutionary" was used by Bolsheviks in the early Soviet Union - simply anyone who disagrees with the mob. I would be interested in hearing instances of state-planned violence against citizens in present day America that comes close to what happened in Waco. Please don't cite immigrants in cages or Gitmo - both were in full force for eight years of a "progressive" Presidency. edit: as predicted, downvotes and no responses

pjc50 8y ago
The family separation policy that led to children in cages was definitely a Trump administration policy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_administration_family_separation_policy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_administration_family_se... Waco was a law enforcement disaster, but one typical of US law enforcement rather than a partisan issue. The policy of distributing MRAP vehicles to police forces has resulted in other victims: https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2011/08/31/actor-steven-seagal-sued-for-driving-tank-into-arizona-home-killing-puppy/#6aaf65a97489 https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2011/08/31/actor-steve... The entire BLM movement is against state violence by US law enforcement. It's a longstanding problem. The Oregon ranchers did not prevail in court, they were pardoned by Trump: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44775113 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44775113
- artificial 8y ago
  If the policy lead to children in cages why were the pictures that lead to the outrage from years prior?
  - ChristianBundy 8y ago
    Source please.
    - artificial 8y ago
      Since I'm in a time crunch: https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/may/29/donald-trump/trump-correctly-tweets-democrats-mistakenly-tweete/ https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/may...
      - ChristianBundy 8y ago
        Thank you!
    - novembermike 8y ago
      It looks like it's accurate. https://www.businessinsider.com/migrant-children-in-cages-2014-photos-explained-2018-5 https://www.businessinsider.com/migrant-children-in-cages-20...
  - merpnderp 8y ago
    Remarkable that those pictures which were falsely attributed to Trump are still consider a fact by anyone. If we actually had journalists instead of partisan with bylines, people might know those pictures were from Obama's tenure. Worst era of journalism ever.
- patrickg_zill 8y ago
  What year were the first extant photos of kids in cages taken?
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
decker 8y ago
Did you predict downvotes and no response based on how vague and baiting your comment is?

Cthulhu_ 8y ago

It sorta is, but it's different enough that it's not ringing enough alarm bells internationally. It's also happening in Poland atm (whole government + judiciary branch is controlled by the right / far-right atm, and while the EU is trying to punish them for it (revoking their EU voting rights), apparently the punishment requires a unanimous vote and there's one country (Bulgaria?) not voting for that.), and will soon in Brazil with a right-wing leader having a fair shot at winning the second round of elections - and he's a terrible person and getting away with it. History repeating, etc. Just subtly different, and from the other side of the fence. Mind you, the US never has been "the good guys", the country was invaded and the natives murdered and displaced massively (that's called "genocide") by colonists, slavery, etc. In WW2 they had concentration camps (for the Japanese), after 9/11 they have concentration camps (for "enemy combatants"), in all cases blatantly flaunting international law and getting away with it without any consequences.

AnimalMuppet 8y ago
Not the good guys, but (in recent years, for the most part) less bad. The US had concentration camps in World War II. They did not have a policy of deliberately killing people in those camps. So, yes, the same (there were camps), and yet really different in a fundamental way that really mattered. Yes, it was wrong. No, it wasn't the same as Germany.

bilbo0s 8y ago

>This sounds strangely familiar in relation to what is occurring within the USA... Not quite. There are no concentration camps in the United States. And we don't have guys out executing jews and other minorities while trashing their temples and churches. EDIT: Oops. iamdave below makes a very good point that people are out executing minorities and attacking their churches. (In fact, a few enterprising numbskulls are out doing both at the same time.) That was a miss on my part. Extremely bad example.

iamdave 8y ago
And we don't have guys out executing jews and other minorities while trashing their temples and churches. How far off the mark would I be in guessing you're not a minority in America? Jason Van Dyke, a Chicago police officer was just convicted of 2nd degree murder and sixteen counts of aggravated battery with a fire arm of a black man in a time when more and more black Americans feel scared for their lives simply being in the presence of a police officer (I happen to be one of them) and Dylan Roof was given the death penalty for killing nine black parishioners at a church in my hometown of Charleston South Carolina three years ago. These are by no means the only examples I can give you.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- xvedejas 8y ago
  Statistics have to come before anecdotes. I'm not really disagreeing with you, but we live in an era with many more people and much more open dialogue. It's easier to find countless stories of minority abuse, regardless of the actual prevalence. I don't know how many stories of the 1930s we have never heard because nobody was left to chronicle them...
  - iamdave 8y ago
    Statistics have to come before anecdotes Point conceded, even if the two examples I gave are two of the highest profile events in the last five years speaking on the topic of minority repression in America, they are symptoms of a larger disease. But point conceded. I'll play along and gladly provide sources and statistics if you'd like, I seem to have made a faulty assumption that these issues I pointed to were speaking for themselves rather loudly and the volumes of data would be readily available to anyone inclined to look for them. There's much more recency to this discussion than what happened in as you put it "the 1930s"