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China Uighurs: Xinjiang 'legalises' Muslim internment camps
- yasp 8y ago>Xinjiang's new legislation says examples of behaviour that could lead to detention include [...] refusing to watch state TV and listen to state radio [...]
- jordigh 8y agoThis story is deeply upsetting. This is what genocide looks like. I feel so powerless. Is there nothing we can do?
- classicsnoot 8y agoStep 1: convince the populations of America, Canada, Western Europe, and 30% of South America that the Han Chinese can be accurately defined as "white." Step 1a: Redefine Chinese history to include colonization as a volitional act (as opposed to an externally imposed act). Step 2: make as many parallels as possible (from accurate to completely spurious) between the Uighurs and Armenians, Tutsis, Jews, Cherokee, and any other minority group with an accepted history of genocidal suffering. Step 3: Make two lists: one will be countries, organizations, and powerful people who stand to gain from Chinese failure; the other will be the same kind of actors who stand to gain from Chinese success. Tally the GDP, net worth, and gross total population of the lists. If list one is bigger than list two, proceed to Step 4. If it is not, SoL. Step 4: Using the actors from list one, introduce a number of motions, initiatives, and resolutions in the UN, using as many different subcommittees as possible, on any topic relating to China. It doesn't matter what they are about. Step 4a: Begin developing a war chest via private funding. The ostensible reasons of collection are irrelevant; funnel a static percentage of each initiative into index funds, core commodities, and urban renewal programs that enjoy strong government support. Step 5: Wait. Step 5a: Hire as many independent investigators, spies for higher, etc., to document the "genocide" (their documentation can be real or fabricated; accuracy is not the goal, preponderance of evidence is). Step 6: Sit back in abject horror with your legion of supporters, billions of dollars, and massive effort while the Han perpetrate a massive cull of "undesirables." Step 7: Take power in the aftermath of WWIII on the basis that you did everything you could to forestall the inevitable, making a particular effort to demonstrate that you will make sure it never happens again.
- jordigh 8y agoHN admins: this is the kind of alt-right, white genocide, holocaust denialism, nazi talk that you should be banning.
- classicsnoot 8y agoI think you could have put more emotional pejoratives in there, and your lack of effort shows that you probably don't have enough faith in the cause. Each of those steps is pulled from actual efforts and initiatives to forestall genocide, non of which has worked. When a world power decides to liquidate a percentage of its population, all that can be done is reactionary in nature; to get involved prior to is to initiate the violence and thereby vindicate the genocidaires. I know you aren't going to argue in good faith. I know responding to your charge is futile. But your petty name calling triggered me, I guess.
- pas 8y agoI'm not well versed in spotting white supremacists, so I don't see why this post is that, but I'm very interested. Could you expand on this a bit please?
- jordigh 8y agoThe first bullet point is about how we have to convince people to include the definition that Han Chinese are white. The implication here is that in order to raise global opposition against the Chinese, you first have to redefine them as white, because whites are the true victims of global outrage. This is part of the "white genocide" conspiracy theory. The second point talks about how we have to redefine Chinese history to talk about colonisation as something that they did on purpose, not by accident. This is also part of the white supremacist conspiracy theory that Columbus-did-nothing-wrong. The biggest part of white supremacism is that whites are being blamed unfairly. White people (whatever that means, whoever that group may be) are not guilty and are not to be blamed. They are victims of circumstance, unfairly maligned by shrill SJWs/leftists/liberals. Third bullet point goes on about how someone is to benefit by blaming the now-white, now-colonisers Chinese. Once you identify these oppressors that will benefit from blaming the Chinese (implicitly, unfairly), you can proceed to follow the points of the anti-white conspiracy theory. Fourth bullet point goes on about war chest funding. A big part of the alt right conspiracy theory is that there's a lot of money coming (mostly from "The Jews!") and that all the opposition you're seeing is paid protesters or crisis actors, cashing cheques from George Soros or similar. Step 5a has genocide in scare quotes. Because, of course, genocides aren't real. This is from holocaust denialism. The post is all a play-by-play of some ridiculous but fashionable nonsense.
- yomansat 8y agoI just wrote an email to info@enoughproject.org to point the fact that this situation is heading towards dangerously close levels to a genocide. I suggest people here do the same to raise more awareness. I was surprised to see what's happening with the Uighurs doesn't put China on their watchlist despite criterias being fulfilled: http://endgenocide.org/whos-at-risk/ http://endgenocide.org/whos-at-risk/ Contact email taken from: http://endgenocide.org/who-we-are/contact-us/ http://endgenocide.org/who-we-are/contact-us/
- emptybits 8y agoIt has been suggested that, in Xinjiang, "owning too many books" or "receiving email from abroad" contributes to one's likelihood of a police visit and ending up in such a camp. https://www.economist.com/briefing/2018/05/31/china-has-turned-xinjiang-into-a-police-state-like-no-other https://www.economist.com/briefing/2018/05/31/china-has-turn... https://www.technologyreview.com/s/611815/who-needs-democracy-when-you-have-data/ https://www.technologyreview.com/s/611815/who-needs-democrac...
- Pica_soO 8y agoI would be so locked away.
- pas 8y agoTextbooks printed before 2009 were burned, and houses are regularly searched just to be sure. Mandatory checkpoints between parts of the city. Arbitrary arrests, arbitrary permission-restrictions. https://meduza.io/en/feature/2018/10/01/an-internment-camp-for-10-million-uyghurs https://meduza.io/en/feature/2018/10/01/an-internment-camp-f...
- 394549 8y agoThis story is getting suppressed from HN. As of this writing, it has 25 points and was posted 1 hour ago, but it's already off the front page. In contrast, there's currently a story on the front page about mosh pits that only has 6 points and was also posted 1-2 hours ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18179662 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18179662 In other news: Y Combinator announced two months ago that it's launching a startup incubator in China: https://techcrunch.com/2018/08/14/y-combinator-china-qi-lu/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/08/14/y-combinator-china-qi-lu/
- noio 8y agoIs that actually true? Or is there another nuance to the formula that determines what ends up on the front page?
- 394549 8y ago> Is that actually true? Or is there another nuance to the formula that determines what ends up on the front page? I doubt it. I've noticed that China stories similar to this one are pretty consistently down-weighted once they hit the front page. They'll get knocked to the very bottom of the first page, or more usually the second page, regardless of how many votes they get. It's a very subtle form of censorship. The post still exists, just with drastically reduced visibility.
- AnimalMuppet 8y agoHN tends to want to avoid political flamewars. Articles about China tend to devolve into political flamewars. If HN has an algorithm that spots flamewars (and I think they do), that could explain some of the behavior you're seeing.
- 394549 8y ago> HN tends to want to avoid political flamewars. Articles about China tend to devolve into political flamewars. If HN has an algorithm that spots flamewars (and I think they do), that could explain some of the behavior you're seeing. I don't think that explains it either. On most of the stories I'm talking about (including this one), there are little to no comments before the story is down-weighted. There's no flamewar for an algorithm to spot. It really feels like topic-based censorship, and likely manual since it seems reactive to popularity.
- Canada 8y agoSimilar repressive policy was used against the native population of Canada. It failed to achieve its intended goals, destroyed lives, and left behind a painful legacy. It's a shame the CCP has decided to take this dark path.
- gdhbcc 8y agoDid it fail though? Or do you only see the failures? How many natives went through that? How many ended up with children that are more or less fully assimilated into mainstream Canadian culture?
- jordigh 8y agoIt deeply, deeply failed. Residential schools were an atrocity. I'd show you articles about them but I'm afraid that no matter what I show you, you'll consider it wrong for some reason, so I ask to try to convince yourself that Canada's residential schools were overall awful.
- gdhbcc 8y agoI'm not making any value judgement, I'm just asking whether or not there is data to state that they didn't accomplish their goals (with some failures along the way)?
- jordigh 8y agoMake a good faith attempt to convince yourself that residential schools were an utter failure (e.g. go read up about them in the book of your choice). I am just afraid that I may attempt to do the work myself and be met with someone who has already made up their mind in bad faith and I'd be wasting my time. If you did make an effort and did indeed find positive effects of residential schools, I'd be more willing to discuss the merits you found.
- Canada 8y agoTaking children by force, confining them in education centers, and violently coercing them to assimilate is counterproductive. A third of them went through the residential school system. The land was fully conquered well before the state setup that system. All it's done is produce generation after generation with very good reason to hate and fear the culture that abused them. Not to mention the related damage going through that does. Been to a few reserves before, and what I see mostly isn't good. I consider it a failure because had governments just done nothing and let them be for the last 100 years we'd surely have the same dominant culture now in place regardless. So much harm done for nothing.
- AnimalMuppet 8y agoGreat. They're still persecuting people in a way that might legitimately be described as genocidal, but now they're doing it with the support of Chinese law. If we're going to oppress people and stomp all over human rights, let's be sure that we do it legally. /s
- jakeogh 8y agoOct 4th 2018: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYAHPPXmcts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYAHPPXmcts