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The only thing that’s going to fix global warming is making carbon based fuel prohibitively expensive through some kind of carbon tax. Energy demand is fairly

The only thing that’s going to fix global warming is making carbon based fuel prohibitively expensive through some kind of carbon tax. Energy demand is fairly elastic and if energy is free or cheap, people will just use more of it, leaving us just where we started. See how bitcoin miners are abusing subsidized renewable energy for example.

mikeash 8y ago
It doesn't matter if people use more if it's renewable. Cheap renewables cause energy use to go up? Hooray!
- empath75 8y ago
  If the renewable energy isn’t displacing what would have been non renewable energy use it doesn’t matter. A glut of renewable energy ends up making gas cheaper which means gas gets used more for things that it wasn’t economical for before which means we’re exactly where we started.
  - mikeash 8y ago
    If it's cheaper than non-renewable energy then it will displace that usage.
quotemstr 8y ago
I don't think we should worry about the total quantity of energy consumed. The wonderful thing about the market is that it finds its own level: once externalities are properly Incorporated into prices, the quantity produced and consumed (which must be idential at equilibrium) will settle at a level that priorities competing concerns appropriately. Who's to say that this equilibrium level is somehow wrong? And what's wrong with miners using cheap electricity? The argument seems to go something like "that subsidy is meant for productive activity and Bitcoin mining isn't productive". Who's to say it isn't productive? The market things it is. What is the market getting wrong? What externality is it not incorporating?
- empath75 8y ago
  It doesn't matter net if some people switch from fossil fuels to renewables, and then somebody else starts using the cheaper fossil fuels for some marginal economic activity that's now feasible with lower fuel costs.
hackeraccount 8y ago
Price is a signal.

mikeash 8y ago

It doesn't matter if people use more if it's renewable. Cheap renewables cause energy use to go up? Hooray!

empath75 8y ago
If the renewable energy isn’t displacing what would have been non renewable energy use it doesn’t matter. A glut of renewable energy ends up making gas cheaper which means gas gets used more for things that it wasn’t economical for before which means we’re exactly where we started.
- mikeash 8y ago
  If it's cheaper than non-renewable energy then it will displace that usage.

quotemstr 8y ago

I don't think we should worry about the total quantity of energy consumed. The wonderful thing about the market is that it finds its own level: once externalities are properly Incorporated into prices, the quantity produced and consumed (which must be idential at equilibrium) will settle at a level that priorities competing concerns appropriately. Who's to say that this equilibrium level is somehow wrong? And what's wrong with miners using cheap electricity? The argument seems to go something like "that subsidy is meant for productive activity and Bitcoin mining isn't productive". Who's to say it isn't productive? The market things it is. What is the market getting wrong? What externality is it not incorporating?

empath75 8y ago
It doesn't matter net if some people switch from fossil fuels to renewables, and then somebody else starts using the cheaper fossil fuels for some marginal economic activity that's now feasible with lower fuel costs.

hackeraccount 8y ago

Price is a signal.