5 ms·

As I said below, I pay $270 a month for my family with a $5k deductible. Worst case, I'm out $8200 before my 100% coinsurance kicks in. I am self employed as

As I said below, I pay $270 a month for my family with a $5k deductible. Worst case, I'm out $8200 before my 100% coinsurance kicks in. I am self employed as well, so this is my total out of pocket cost, no employer contribution. Without getting into specifics, $8,200 is less than 10% of my income. I realize I am not in the "average" spectrum, but realize thay my opinion on the subject is just as valid as those on the other end of the income spectrum. When I was broke, sure I wanted the government to pay for everything (college, etc.). Now that I'm not broke, I don't want the government to pay for anything (for anyone) if it's going to cost me money. It's funny how things work like that :).

mechanical_fish 18y ago
When I was broke, sure I wanted the government to pay for everything (college, etc.). Now that I'm not broke, I don't want the government to pay for anything (for anyone) if it's going to cost me money. It's funny how things work like that :). I have friends with a) cancer and b) no insurance, because they can't afford it. I'm not laughing.
- goofygrin 18y ago
  a) that sucks for them b) they need a better job Listen, life isn't fair. You want the benefits of capitalism without the risks? How does that work?
  - run4yourlives 18y ago
    > How does that work? See Canada, Europe and other countries.
    - goofygrin 18y ago
      So I'm going to piss off more people, but "see the list of places I don't want to live." And I have lived outside the US so this isn't myopia. Listen, running a business and being successful is significantly harder in those places vs. the US. I want to live in a place where the limit to my future is me. Not what the government says is my limit. I don't want to have to pay employees to not work, to work 30 hours weeks (and complain about it), 5-6-7 weeks of vacation. I have no idea how small businesses make it in the EU. It's silly how much they have to pay their workers between salary and benefits. For all the drones out there, the EU is a great place. For people with aspirations it's a death spiral.
      - create_account 18y ago
        I agree with goofygrin; this thread reminds me of this: http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-op-orourke4-2008may04,0,6539887.story http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-op-orourke4-2008may04...
      - bokonist 18y ago
        You're giving capitalism a bad name by calling the American health care system capitalist ( especially the system in Massachusetts). American healthcare is just as regulated as Europe. The difference is that while most European systems run on a system of price ceilings for care, America has a system of price floors. Since there are pretty steep diminishing returns to health care spending, price floors have the neat effect of making health care super expensive without increasing quality. American capitalism has many advantages. Health care is not one of them.
        goofygrin 18y ago
        I'm not saying that our system is capitalism. I'm saying that socialized medicine (which is what other countries have) and big government flies right in the face of what this country is based upon, personal liberty, responsibility and freedom. And show me any place in history that price controls have been an effective fiscal policy. Look at the third world and see how well it works for them. I lived in a place where the price of a loaf of bread was fixed at x. Well when x was a fair price and provided profit to the baker everyone was happy. 10 years later, people were so used to bread being x that when noone could make bread any more because the cost of the ingredients had gone up so much there were riots. So what did the government do? They raised minimum wage and price controlled the ingredients for bread. So all the bakeries closed down. And now a bunch of other shops closed down or fired their employees. Then what? Laws making it impossible to fire an employee. Price controls and fixing are not the answer.
        run4yourlives 18y ago
        >I'm saying that socialized medicine (which is what other countries have) and big government flies right in the face of what this country is based upon, personal liberty, responsibility and freedom. Well, you're probably correct there. As a entrepreneur though, it's rather dangerous to let ideology dictate a solution to a problem, especially if something else can do a better job. You can certainly argue about whether social medicine is that something else, but to remove something from consideration simply because it "isn't how we do things here" sounds like a recipe for failure if you ask me.
  - rms 18y ago
    >a) that sucks for them b) they need a better job You have a complete lack of empathy. I don't think that's healthy. >You want the benefits of capitalism without the risks? How does that work? Government that truly cares about the interests of the people.
- ericb 18y ago
  I suggest your friend move to massachusetts, if possible. Last I knew, there was no pre-existing condition exclusion allowed in MA, and now rates are available through the state. My sympathies to your friend.

mechanical_fish 18y ago

When I was broke, sure I wanted the government to pay for everything (college, etc.). Now that I'm not broke, I don't want the government to pay for anything (for anyone) if it's going to cost me money. It's funny how things work like that :). I have friends with a) cancer and b) no insurance, because they can't afford it. I'm not laughing.

goofygrin 18y ago
a) that sucks for them b) they need a better job Listen, life isn't fair. You want the benefits of capitalism without the risks? How does that work?
- run4yourlives 18y ago
  > How does that work? See Canada, Europe and other countries.
  - goofygrin 18y ago
    So I'm going to piss off more people, but "see the list of places I don't want to live." And I have lived outside the US so this isn't myopia. Listen, running a business and being successful is significantly harder in those places vs. the US. I want to live in a place where the limit to my future is me. Not what the government says is my limit. I don't want to have to pay employees to not work, to work 30 hours weeks (and complain about it), 5-6-7 weeks of vacation. I have no idea how small businesses make it in the EU. It's silly how much they have to pay their workers between salary and benefits. For all the drones out there, the EU is a great place. For people with aspirations it's a death spiral.
    - create_account 18y ago
      I agree with goofygrin; this thread reminds me of this: http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-op-orourke4-2008may04,0,6539887.story http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-op-orourke4-2008may04...
    - bokonist 18y ago
      You're giving capitalism a bad name by calling the American health care system capitalist ( especially the system in Massachusetts). American healthcare is just as regulated as Europe. The difference is that while most European systems run on a system of price ceilings for care, America has a system of price floors. Since there are pretty steep diminishing returns to health care spending, price floors have the neat effect of making health care super expensive without increasing quality. American capitalism has many advantages. Health care is not one of them.
      - goofygrin 18y ago
        I'm not saying that our system is capitalism. I'm saying that socialized medicine (which is what other countries have) and big government flies right in the face of what this country is based upon, personal liberty, responsibility and freedom. And show me any place in history that price controls have been an effective fiscal policy. Look at the third world and see how well it works for them. I lived in a place where the price of a loaf of bread was fixed at x. Well when x was a fair price and provided profit to the baker everyone was happy. 10 years later, people were so used to bread being x that when noone could make bread any more because the cost of the ingredients had gone up so much there were riots. So what did the government do? They raised minimum wage and price controlled the ingredients for bread. So all the bakeries closed down. And now a bunch of other shops closed down or fired their employees. Then what? Laws making it impossible to fire an employee. Price controls and fixing are not the answer.
        run4yourlives 18y ago
        >I'm saying that socialized medicine (which is what other countries have) and big government flies right in the face of what this country is based upon, personal liberty, responsibility and freedom. Well, you're probably correct there. As a entrepreneur though, it's rather dangerous to let ideology dictate a solution to a problem, especially if something else can do a better job. You can certainly argue about whether social medicine is that something else, but to remove something from consideration simply because it "isn't how we do things here" sounds like a recipe for failure if you ask me.
- rms 18y ago
  >a) that sucks for them b) they need a better job You have a complete lack of empathy. I don't think that's healthy. >You want the benefits of capitalism without the risks? How does that work? Government that truly cares about the interests of the people.
ericb 18y ago
I suggest your friend move to massachusetts, if possible. Last I knew, there was no pre-existing condition exclusion allowed in MA, and now rates are available through the state. My sympathies to your friend.