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> the politically-motivated hands of the lying Google haters, who have already been screaming for Google’s blood Yikes. Maybe tone down the invective a bit? It

> the politically-motivated hands of the lying Google haters, who have already been screaming for Google’s blood Yikes. Maybe tone down the invective a bit? It’s possible to think Google something other than a force for unalloyed good without being “politically motivated”, a “lying hater”, or consumed by blood-lust.

Chlorus 8y ago
Can't imagine why I shouldn't give a multibillion-dollar company whose employees (well, former employee in this case) refer to critics as "evil haters" the benefit of the doubt.
draw_down 8y ago
Yeah, no kidding. I had the same reaction.
throwaway5250 8y ago
Yeah, caught that bit of gatekeeping: "I, Poobah of Tech, am here to say that Google might suck. However, all of the people who have said before me that Google might suck, well, they suck." As for Google, considering everything that's come out in the last year, they've gone from a company I always wanted to work at to a company I cannot imagine working at.
- stcredzero 8y ago
  As for Google, considering everything that's come out in the last year, they've gone from a company I always wanted to work at to a company I cannot imagine working at. I can well imagine what it would be like, and I would be frightened to work there.
- freetime2 8y ago
  The contrarian in me says now is probably a great time to work at Google. They are basically printing money at this point. Disillusioned kool-aid drinkers are making their way for the exits, which means there are probably ample opportunities for personal growth. Their mission to "organize the world's information" is still relevant. And there's no way it can be as bad as recent media coverage makes it seem... just don't get caught up in any culture wars and you should be golden.
  - throwaway5250 8y ago
    That last caveat is basically the whole thing. Reading Exhibit B (from the Damore suit), it's apparent that a number of Googlers feel it's their brief to ruin your life if they discover that you don't think the way they do. It's like selling an uncovered call. It'll probably be okay, but you can see upfront that the possible downside is almost unlimited. I've never even heard of a professional environment that bad.
apenwarr 8y ago
I thought his intention was to refer specifically to the group of haters who are lying. There are many people in that group who have strong incentives to do so. That’s to differentiate them from the larger but separate groups of liars, and of google haters, who he wasn’t referring to.
lgleason 8y ago
TBH Google's decision to drive their left leaning politics turned my opinion of them.....this is not based on lies, but actually seeing what they've done (some first hand). They would have been well served to have stayed non-political because administrations etc. change. Cozying up to China while snubbing US government contracts also doesn't help their cause in the US. From a practical level I've watched their hiring standards slip and become political vs "hiring the best" that allowed them to become successful. Internally there has been a politically motivated purge that has driven some very talented individuals out. I've also seen some hires that they rightfully would not have touched a few years ago....success breeds failure.
- mike00632 8y ago
  Wow, I got the opposite view of them while observing the same occurrences. Back when US federal law prohibited the recognition of gay marriage I would be taxed much more than a straight person. Google had a policy of paying gay employees who suffered from this discrimination the difference in pay. Sure, the policy is "left leaning" but it gives me the impression that Google is the absolute best place to work as a talented person no matter what minority I belong to. As for the military contracts and China expansion I have reservations but I would hardly call those "left leaning."
bitL 8y ago
MSFT was caught buying services of some PR company to make negative waves about Google. The "general hackers" discontent is pretty recent. We can't really tell who is paid to talk bad about Google and who does really mean it due to ethical concerns, so she has a point.
- t0astbread 8y ago
  But what if YOU were paid by Google to make that comment?
  - bitL 8y ago
    I am just trying to be objective; the next statement would tell you I was not paid - except for GMail and a bit of Chrome for dev work I am now completely Google-less, moved over to DDG, ProtonMail and my phones are running iOS and Sailfish OS. Exceptions are TensorFlow, Keras and Kubernetes.
- blub 8y ago
  "they give the EU additional excuses to try fine Google billions extra to enrich EU coffers"plus the part where they say that Google is great at privacy makes me think the author is very much out of touch with reality. I've seen it with Google employees here on HN too: they're so invested in everything Google that they can't understand why anyone would have an issue with their endless data collection and surveillance of the entire planet. Any lingering doubts are probably buried when they think that all thing considered they do have a very cushy life at the company.
- pas 8y ago
  Were there less/smaller blunders of Google, those hired guns would shoot air at nothing. That is, it's Google's fuckups that counts, not how many people scream about it on HN. (In general it matters, but that's politics.)

Chlorus 8y ago

Can't imagine why I shouldn't give a multibillion-dollar company whose employees (well, former employee in this case) refer to critics as "evil haters" the benefit of the doubt.

draw_down 8y ago

Yeah, no kidding. I had the same reaction.

throwaway5250 8y ago

Yeah, caught that bit of gatekeeping: "I, Poobah of Tech, am here to say that Google might suck. However, all of the people who have said before me that Google might suck, well, they suck." As for Google, considering everything that's come out in the last year, they've gone from a company I always wanted to work at to a company I cannot imagine working at.

stcredzero 8y ago
As for Google, considering everything that's come out in the last year, they've gone from a company I always wanted to work at to a company I cannot imagine working at. I can well imagine what it would be like, and I would be frightened to work there.
freetime2 8y ago
The contrarian in me says now is probably a great time to work at Google. They are basically printing money at this point. Disillusioned kool-aid drinkers are making their way for the exits, which means there are probably ample opportunities for personal growth. Their mission to "organize the world's information" is still relevant. And there's no way it can be as bad as recent media coverage makes it seem... just don't get caught up in any culture wars and you should be golden.
- throwaway5250 8y ago
  That last caveat is basically the whole thing. Reading Exhibit B (from the Damore suit), it's apparent that a number of Googlers feel it's their brief to ruin your life if they discover that you don't think the way they do. It's like selling an uncovered call. It'll probably be okay, but you can see upfront that the possible downside is almost unlimited. I've never even heard of a professional environment that bad.

apenwarr 8y ago

I thought his intention was to refer specifically to the group of haters who are lying. There are many people in that group who have strong incentives to do so. That’s to differentiate them from the larger but separate groups of liars, and of google haters, who he wasn’t referring to.

lgleason 8y ago

TBH Google's decision to drive their left leaning politics turned my opinion of them.....this is not based on lies, but actually seeing what they've done (some first hand). They would have been well served to have stayed non-political because administrations etc. change. Cozying up to China while snubbing US government contracts also doesn't help their cause in the US. From a practical level I've watched their hiring standards slip and become political vs "hiring the best" that allowed them to become successful. Internally there has been a politically motivated purge that has driven some very talented individuals out. I've also seen some hires that they rightfully would not have touched a few years ago....success breeds failure.

mike00632 8y ago
Wow, I got the opposite view of them while observing the same occurrences. Back when US federal law prohibited the recognition of gay marriage I would be taxed much more than a straight person. Google had a policy of paying gay employees who suffered from this discrimination the difference in pay. Sure, the policy is "left leaning" but it gives me the impression that Google is the absolute best place to work as a talented person no matter what minority I belong to. As for the military contracts and China expansion I have reservations but I would hardly call those "left leaning."

bitL 8y ago

MSFT was caught buying services of some PR company to make negative waves about Google. The "general hackers" discontent is pretty recent. We can't really tell who is paid to talk bad about Google and who does really mean it due to ethical concerns, so she has a point.

t0astbread 8y ago
But what if YOU were paid by Google to make that comment?
- bitL 8y ago
  I am just trying to be objective; the next statement would tell you I was not paid - except for GMail and a bit of Chrome for dev work I am now completely Google-less, moved over to DDG, ProtonMail and my phones are running iOS and Sailfish OS. Exceptions are TensorFlow, Keras and Kubernetes.
blub 8y ago
"they give the EU additional excuses to try fine Google billions extra to enrich EU coffers"plus the part where they say that Google is great at privacy makes me think the author is very much out of touch with reality. I've seen it with Google employees here on HN too: they're so invested in everything Google that they can't understand why anyone would have an issue with their endless data collection and surveillance of the entire planet. Any lingering doubts are probably buried when they think that all thing considered they do have a very cushy life at the company.
pas 8y ago
Were there less/smaller blunders of Google, those hired guns would shoot air at nothing. That is, it's Google's fuckups that counts, not how many people scream about it on HN. (In general it matters, but that's politics.)