4 ms·

Yeah - when I add to it that, as a non-American, I can (annectodaly) observe a rise in different kinds of news that involve China in a negative context for the

Yeah - when I add to it that, as a non-American, I can (annectodaly) observe a rise in different kinds of news that involve China in a negative context for the last 6m especially, it's hard to form an opinion. In terms of security concerns also - come on, we know by now to which lengths the US goes in this area, and they're surely doing worse stuff than this, I'd expect no one would doubt it any more. So, either they are genuinely surprised by this, which would be silly (a politically adversarial nation using an obvious opportunity - cheaper stuff being produced there for decades - and doing the same), or it's a part of a broader narrative that's being built. And, to be clear, I don't think we (the world outside China) shouldn't be a bit worried given in what position _we've_ put China and how strong they are now - it's just that this kind of mass-manipulation and propaganda is the most-detested way of doing it for me...

azinman2 8y ago
Still doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be concerned by China’s super position in the global supply chain...
- AsyncAwait 8y ago
  You should, but China rarely cares about people beyond its own boarders. They don't have the power of the U.S. to reach for anyone across the globe, so I think NSA doing this is a tad more worrisome.
  - _Codemonkeyism 8y ago
    I think the main difference between the US and China, the Chinese have no mission to convert every country to their thinking. Not that they influence countries through their investments, see Greece as an example.
    - _Codemonkeyism 8y ago
      "... don't ..."
    - azinman2 8y ago
      Ummm other than Silk Road pulling tons of countries into their sphere, using it to push new Chinese standards for people to switch towards, making HK/Taiwan/Tibet fully incorporated and culturally homogenous, taking islands away from other countries across SE Asia and calling it all china’s sea, etc etc. They’re just more subtle, until they’re not. They have a very long term outlook on their efforts.
      - _Codemonkeyism 8y ago
        China is not pushing countries to become 'communist' states.
      - AsyncAwait 8y ago
        China does have ambitions, sure, but they're mostly local ones. I was mainly talking about cases like Kim Dotcom, where the U.S. reached all the way to NZ. China doesn't have Five Eyes, has not attacked a foreign country etc. It does not mean this cannot change, but I get the feeling China strives for a more local "sphere of influence" strategy, (hence the things like you mentioned), whereas the US strives to maintain "global dominance". As someone sitting in Western Europe, I don't think China has that much interest to dominate here.
    - lenkite 8y ago
      You need to be a citizen of a nation neighbouring China to know the severe pressure that China exerts on borders, trade and geo-politics. You just don't hear about it much in the world-news as it doesn't affect the US.
      - _Codemonkeyism 8y ago
        China is not pushing countries to become 'communist' states.
  - Latteland 8y ago
    They kidnap people from other places who are dissidents including from Hong Kong, Malaysia, and even the us.
    - Latteland 8y ago
      Here's an article discussing this worldwide kidnapping. https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/03/29/the-disappeared-china-renditions-kidnapping/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/03/29/the-disappeared-china-r...
SZJX 8y ago
> I don't think we (the world outside China) shouldn't be a bit worried given in what position _we've_ put China and how strong they are now At least China won't be as dangerous as the US or the Soviet Union in that it has absolutely no interest in enforcing its political ideals on other places or becoming a world police. I see no real reason why people should be worried about the rise of China as if this will turn the whole world Orweillian. China has its own way of organizing the vast and complex country and it's hard to come up with better practical solutions. Still if one doesn't like it they can just live somewhere else, and the authorities don't care, as long as it doesn't hurt Chinese business.
- auslander 8y ago
  > .. no interest in enforcing its political ideals on other places or becoming a world police Not yet. But becoming a banker for whole third-world is almost done. And when your debts are big, you lose sovereignty.

azinman2 8y ago

Still doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be concerned by China’s super position in the global supply chain...

AsyncAwait 8y ago
You should, but China rarely cares about people beyond its own boarders. They don't have the power of the U.S. to reach for anyone across the globe, so I think NSA doing this is a tad more worrisome.
- _Codemonkeyism 8y ago
  I think the main difference between the US and China, the Chinese have no mission to convert every country to their thinking. Not that they influence countries through their investments, see Greece as an example.
  - _Codemonkeyism 8y ago
    "... don't ..."
  - azinman2 8y ago
    Ummm other than Silk Road pulling tons of countries into their sphere, using it to push new Chinese standards for people to switch towards, making HK/Taiwan/Tibet fully incorporated and culturally homogenous, taking islands away from other countries across SE Asia and calling it all china’s sea, etc etc. They’re just more subtle, until they’re not. They have a very long term outlook on their efforts.
    - _Codemonkeyism 8y ago
      China is not pushing countries to become 'communist' states.
    - AsyncAwait 8y ago
      China does have ambitions, sure, but they're mostly local ones. I was mainly talking about cases like Kim Dotcom, where the U.S. reached all the way to NZ. China doesn't have Five Eyes, has not attacked a foreign country etc. It does not mean this cannot change, but I get the feeling China strives for a more local "sphere of influence" strategy, (hence the things like you mentioned), whereas the US strives to maintain "global dominance". As someone sitting in Western Europe, I don't think China has that much interest to dominate here.
  - lenkite 8y ago
    You need to be a citizen of a nation neighbouring China to know the severe pressure that China exerts on borders, trade and geo-politics. You just don't hear about it much in the world-news as it doesn't affect the US.
    - _Codemonkeyism 8y ago
      China is not pushing countries to become 'communist' states.
- Latteland 8y ago
  They kidnap people from other places who are dissidents including from Hong Kong, Malaysia, and even the us.
  - Latteland 8y ago
    Here's an article discussing this worldwide kidnapping. https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/03/29/the-disappeared-china-renditions-kidnapping/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/03/29/the-disappeared-china-r...

SZJX 8y ago

> I don't think we (the world outside China) shouldn't be a bit worried given in what position _we've_ put China and how strong they are now At least China won't be as dangerous as the US or the Soviet Union in that it has absolutely no interest in enforcing its political ideals on other places or becoming a world police. I see no real reason why people should be worried about the rise of China as if this will turn the whole world Orweillian. China has its own way of organizing the vast and complex country and it's hard to come up with better practical solutions. Still if one doesn't like it they can just live somewhere else, and the authorities don't care, as long as it doesn't hurt Chinese business.

auslander 8y ago
> .. no interest in enforcing its political ideals on other places or becoming a world police Not yet. But becoming a banker for whole third-world is almost done. And when your debts are big, you lose sovereignty.