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I feel like I'm taking crazy pills when I see all these Android phones with notches on the top, but no screen going all the way to the bottom. Apple explained t
by seanalltogether 8y ago
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills when I see all these Android phones with notches on the top, but no screen going all the way to the bottom. Apple explained they wanted an edge to edge screen, and that the notch was a compromise to achieve that goal. Now all the android devices are copying the compromise without trying to copy the goal.
- mcphage 8y agoMaybe they decided reaching the top of the screen was more important than reaching the bottom?
- rootusrootus 8y agoFor Pixel in particular it really feels like they've started copying the iPhone's hardware choices in some ways, for no real reason that I can discern. The notch, eliminating the headphone jack, etc. Then they even matched it on price (heck, isn't the Pixel actually more expensive than an iPhone if you match them on flash size?). I was a Google phone fan back in the days of the Nexus 4, but these latest attempts feel like Google trying to force their market position up rather than embracing their niche.
- Puer 8y agoIt's pretty pathetic too after they release a whole slew of ads making fun of Apple's design choices... Only to unashamedly copy them in the next iteration.
- hunta2097 8y agoIt's like Google looked at the iPhone X and said "yep, people really seem to dig those notches - we'll make our's EVEN BIGGER!" The Pixel 3 XL leaks looked so bad, I really thought it would end up being a troll. Nope. Nothing compelling or exciting, yet so many questions... o Do people really need a tablet that you can't take with you? o Why the notch and that huge chin? o Can't phone speakers be thinner? o So, you're just going to keep those underwhelming ear-buds from last year? Google, stick to Software.
- euyyn 8y ago> a tablet that you can't take with you What do you mean?
- bdcravens 8y agoGoogle specifically? Or are you thinking Samsung? (they of course have no notch and still have a headphone jack)
- dan1234 8y agoGoogle’s Pixel adverts mocked Apple’s lack of 3.5mm jack. https://youtu.be/Rykmwn0SMWU?t=42 https://youtu.be/Rykmwn0SMWU?t=42
- Puer 8y agoGoogle. https://youtu.be/Rykmwn0SMWU?t=40 https://youtu.be/Rykmwn0SMWU?t=40
- patrickmcnamara 8y agoA slew of ads or just a small part of that one ad?
- SketchySeaBeast 8y agoYeah, I honestly appreciate Samsung for not jumping on those trends just for the trends sake. Samsung really lead on the thin bezels, and hasn't adopted another of the more ridiculous fads.
- pjmlp 8y agoIf they at least were more serious about keeping their devices up to date. Not everyone has budgets for buying S models all the time. As it is, I will probably go with Nokia, even though they are now on USB-C as well.
- rconti 8y agoI'm looking forward to Samsung's NotchPhone coming out some day. I have an iPhone X and think the notch is a non-issue, but I didn't realize Android phone makers had started coping it until the past few weeks when I noticed lots of billboards for Android phones while traveling, all of which had the notch.
- gehsty 8y agoOnly the didn’t copy the edge to edge screen or m the faceid system. The Pixel 3 XL looks awful. The regular pixel 3 looks balenced at least.
- Klathmon 8y agoWell Android does have a "face-id" kind of system built in that works with the camera alone. It's not as advanced, but Google's thing is using software to really make it a nice product, and the face unlock works really well for me on my pixel 1 XL.
- rootusrootus 8y agoIsn't the point of the infrared mapping that Apple does on the iPhone that it is significantly more difficult to fool than camera-based solutions? Android has had face unlock for years but you can fool it pretty easily. Anything Apple introduces to replace Touch ID must be more secure than that.
- Klathmon 8y agoYes, but it's not as bad as you think (i can't fool my pixel with a picture for instance), and it's never unlocked for anyone else. It also disables it if there are any failed login attempts, and requires a "something you know" method every so often anyway. >Anything Apple introduces to replace Touch ID must be more secure than that. And that's the key, on android face-unlock doesn't replace fingerprint, it adds and additional option if you want it.
- gehsty 8y agoIt only doesn’t replace a finger print sensor because it is not as secure as faceid. Fairly sure if you could remove the finger print sensor entirely you would. I don’t buy the convienience arguement at all, look at Picard on the enterprise, he doesn’t use a finger print sensor, the computer just knows it is him, faceid is much closer to this future than touchid..
- bscphil 8y agoCompletely a conspiracy theory, but what if Google & others theorize that actively making devices worse causes an unexpected psychological response? Apple customers are devoted and willing to spend large amounts of money to upgrade flashy looking devices regularly, that's why Apple is so profitable. Making a sacrifice (the notch, high cost, lack of a headphone jack) to own an "elite" device effectively commits one to continue defending that decision, both to others (potential customers!) and through additional buying decisions later. A kind of self-induced Stockholm syndrome.
- prions 8y agoOr, without making ridiculous unsupported pop-psych claims, people buy iPhones because they like them better. But I think Apple managing to induce Stockholm syndrome to millions of people worldwide is much more plausible.
- Udik 8y agoIt's actually an interesting idea. Of course the negative points should be at least debatable, so that you can say you actually chose to spend more, or to have a notch. Every time someone makes fun of you because you spent a thousand bucks on a phone, you're forced to go into self-defense mode, and that reinforces your identification with the object. Pure speculation, of course :)
- rootusrootus 8y agoI think Apple's pricing only works because the resale is so strong. I've never lost as much money on phones as when I was buying Android flagships. When I can go sell my two year old iPhone 7 Plus for $400, it's a lot easier to stomach the purchase price of an iPhone XS. Not that I'm going to do that this year, mind you, but still. Apple has really curated their position as the premium choice, and I commend them for that. They learned relatively quickly (though not without missteps) that people would rather buy last year's (or the year before!) flagship at a discount than a brand new budget model. Saves R&D by milking the older model for another couple years, makes a bunch more customers happy, it's really a brilliant strategy.
- 8y ago
- wlesieutre 8y agoI don't have any personal experience with this, but I saw this article about Google killing the headphone jack: https://www.pcworld.com/article/3284186/mobile/bring-back-the-headphone-jack-why-usb-c-audio-still-doesnt-work.html https://www.pcworld.com/article/3284186/mobile/bring-back-th... Yeah, Apple killed headphone jacks on the iPhone. But they also: 1) Gave you lightning headphones that work on all iPhones 2) Have 3rd party lightning headphones that all work on all iPhones 3) Gave you a lightning to 3.5mm headphone adapter that worked on all iPhones with whatever regular 3.5mm headphones you previously used with your phones 4) Made better bluetooth earbuds for moving away from wired headphones entirely Android manufacturers have not matched that with USB-C audio. They just copied "Step 0) Remove the headphone jack."
- Someone1234 8y agoAll true. I would like to tack on, that Apple recently stopped providing the included 3.5mm headphone adapter with newly purchased iPhones (include iPhone 7 and 8 purchases)[0]. [0] https://9to5mac.com/2018/09/12/iphone-xs-tidbits-airpower/ https://9to5mac.com/2018/09/12/iphone-xs-tidbits-airpower/
- Operyl 8y agoSure, but they gave it a few years until they did so. Nowadays, I don't even use the adapters. I've bought wireless headphones or lightning-earphones.
- mikepurvis 8y agoA big gap for some people is that the wireless headphones can't be used on airplanes.
- colejohnson66 8y agoWait. Really?
- 8y ago
- 2muchcoffeeman 8y agoThe Pixels are cheaper for a flagship phone. But I was surprised they were in striking distance of iPhone pricing. Wow. Pixel 3 128 $899 XR 128 $799 XS 256 $1149
- paulcole 8y ago> For Pixel in particular it really feels like they've started copying the iPhone's hardware choices in some ways, for no real reason that I can discern. The iPhone is cool. That’s why it’s being copied.
- sizzle 8y agoI was a proud Android user since the g1 days but now will be switching to iPhone due to Google's terrible privacy practices.
- ksec 8y agoI think the idea for the pricing is giving the consumer that it is not a cheap knockoff alternative to Samsung or Huawei. And Google allows heavy discount to Carriers, so consumers "saves" a few hundred dollars when they sign it with a mobile contracts. Compared to Apple you get less than 10% discount from Wholesale.
- sh87 8y agoOff topic : the launch webpage [1] is hell annoying. Image loops, scroll-jacking, poorly thought out. By the time I scrolled to the bottom, Chrome made 470 requests and downloaded 42.8 Megabytes (10 additional requests blocked by AdBlock plus extension) and thats just the 'Overview' tab. W.T.F! [1]: https://store.google.com/product/pixel_3 https://store.google.com/product/pixel_3
- PascLeRasc 8y agoI'd pay nearly any amount for a Nexus 5 SE. Perfect form factor/size and a beautiful design, just needs a better battery and camera.
- alienreborn 8y agoComes down to two reasons.. 1. Its costly to manufacture a screen that bends to avoid the bezel. 2. Apple has a patent for bended screen. So, competitors have to come up with a slightly different way to achieve this. Folded screen of iphone https://i.imgur.com/Vg2n5Ji.jpg https://i.imgur.com/Vg2n5Ji.jpg
- Someone1234 8y agoDidn't Samsung's flagships have edge screens before the iPhone X was released?
- alienreborn 8y agoNo, they still have small bezels both at top and bottom
- Someone1234 8y agoYou claimed that nobody else was able to get so close to the edges due to Apple's patents. I was pointing out that Samsung already gets as close or closer to the left/right hand edges before the X was even announced. While they didn't go fully to the top or bottom, that doesn't alter how the technology itself would work. If they can get close to the horizontal edges, they can get close to the vertical edges.
- metasaval 8y agoThe issue, specifically, is that the display ribbon to connect it to the board needs to go somewhere [0]. For years, it was the bottom. So when it comes to removing a chin, you need to find a place for that ribbon. Apple achieved this by folding the screen at the bottom, so the screen isn't technically ending at the bottom. This is why it's easier to stretch out screens to the sides and the top. [0] https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/28/17152840/oneplus-6-notch-size-android-flagship https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/28/17152840/oneplus-6-notch-...
- 8y ago
- saghm 8y agoI'm a happy Pixel 2 XL user, and I definitely agree here. It almost seems like they thought the notch itself was the feature rather than just an enabler for the bezeless screen, which is the real feature.
- herpderperator 8y agoIn this case it's a simple reason: there are stereo speakers, which means there has to be a speaker at the bottom. That stops the screen from going all the way to the bottom edge.
- bufferoverflow 8y agoThere's technology to make the sound with the screen. Vivo Apex did it: https://www.whathifi.com/news/vivos-apex-concept-smartphone-has-vibrating-screen-instead-speakers https://www.whathifi.com/news/vivos-apex-concept-smartphone-... https://mashable.com/2017/02/28/redux-phone-screen-speaker/ https://mashable.com/2017/02/28/redux-phone-screen-speaker/
- what_ever 8y agoAnd it's not supposed to be as good as actual speakers? Disc: Googler but don't work on related teams.
- xorcist 8y agoI think that's ascribing Apple a little too much. This design trend would have happened with or without Apple, and their design goals aren't everybody's. Phones such as Essential had this notch before Apple was even rumoured to have one.
- ProAm 8y agoApple doesn't invent anything. They let someone else invent it, then they just borrow the design and iterate. It's been their MO for more than a decade.
- kbenson 8y agoGetting close to two decades, at a minimum. It depends on whether you want to go farther back than the iPod (2001). Obviously, it works for them. An important, if sometimes overlooked, factor of their strategy is that it's not just borrow and iterate, it's a) identify device that will blow up, b) borrow well before it blows up, c) use that lead time to iterate and leap-frog the competition in polish, and d) release right as the market is poised to accept the new device as mainstream. They can also misjudge any one of those items a bit and still power their way through, especially now that they have such credibility.
- pjmlp 8y agoIf I go back to the mid-90's, Amiga and Atari were much more relevant to my region than Apple, which was mostly visible on American computer magazines. Had they not been bought by NeXT (which is what actually happened) and we wouldn't be talking about Apple setting industry designs.
- kbenson 8y agoApple's acquisition of NeXT was probably the most expensive - but definitely the most lucrative - acquihire in history.
- thomaspark 8y ago
- notatoad 8y agothe CEO one of the chinese phone companies (i can't remember which one) just came straight out and told theverge what we all assumed: the notch isn't necessary, but consumers see a notch as "premium". So they notch the display, because that tests better in their market research.
- staeff777 8y agoWell, there are some devices that try to inrease the screensize to the max, for example the Oneplus 6 (which has sadly a very high SAR value) or the newly "leaks" of de Mate 20.
- JohnJamesRambo 8y agoWe are truly living in the age of idiocracy. I heard Alan Kay sum it up well in a podcast this morning where he was talking about how evolution doesn't have to evolve to be the best anything. Paraphrasing- "If you live in a stupid environment, stupid is the most fit."
- p1esk 8y agoIt's not like at any time in the past this was any different.
- starsinspace 8y agoWhich podcast was it?
- endz 8y agoIt's from the book, Valley of Genius: The Uncensored History of Silicon Valley
- JohnJamesRambo 8y agoYep the Leo Laporte podcast Valley of Genius.
- 8y ago
- liquidise 8y agoThe notch is now a status symbol. Sure, the notch is a clear usability sacrifice, but for 12 months the presence of a notch was synonymous with having [arguably] the best phone. Google's pixel offering captures this perfectly: the pixel 3 is notchless, you need to pay the money for the XL to get your notch.
- romanovcode 8y agoThe notch might be, however Android is clearly not.
- skc 8y agoActually makes me respect Samsung a bit more for sticking to their guns and continuing to poke fun at the notch, rightly or wrongly. Yes, they've done their fair share of copying from Apple, but lately they seem to actually believe in their own ideas.
- dep_b 8y agoI bet they're trying all kinds of crazy stuff to make their phones look newer than 5 years old while not copying the notch they have been mocking in their own commercials. The only thing I can think of is a pop-up camera (done already) or a through-pixel camera (not done yet). If Samsung pulls off the latter the whole smartphone evolution is just done, over, finished.
- umichguy 8y ago"If Samsung pulls off the latter the whole smartphone evolution is just done, over, finished." The next thing will be not to have a phone at all, or a holographic one. ;)
- utopcell 8y agoAgreed. This is not Google engineering. This marketing-driven design. Something is off here..
- 04rob 8y agoApple didn't come up with the notch. Essential and Sharp (both Android phones) were first: https://www.phonearena.com/news/history-of-the-notch-and-bezel-less-smartphone-design_id105800 https://www.phonearena.com/news/history-of-the-notch-and-bez...
- ziftface 8y agoIt makes complete sense on those phones though, doesn't really work on the pixel 3.
- colejohnson66 8y agoBut Android manufacturers weren’t seeing it as “essential” until Apple did it. Same with ditching the headphone jack. The industry makes fun of Apple for doing something, then the next year, copies it
- phaus 8y agoHere we are much later. Not having a headphone jack is still really stupid. Having to use a dongle for headphones is still an inconvenience that detracts from the experience. Every set of truly wireless bluetooth earbuds on the market is mediocre at best. The sound quality is substandard for listening to music (even compared to other earbuds) and the audio frequently lags, making them utterly worthless for everything else. Even when someone does design a set of truly wireless earbuds that matches the quality of $20 wired earbuds today, its still going to be a total joke as long as those wireless earbuds cost 150-300.
- cycrutchfield 8y agoAirpods are fantastic, and nobody who has them misses having their head physically connected to their phone by a cable anymore.
- rspeer 8y agoAre Airpods going to work with the Pixel 3? Or will it be the more typical thing with Android accessories, where you have to buy a Google knockoff and never lose it, and then when you do lose it, you have to buy a seriously off-brand thing from China because Google has lost interest in products they sold a year ago?
- what_ever 8y agoI agree the notch looks really bad. But if you have the option of not having screen there vs having screen there, I am okay with the notch. You anyway have an option to turn that part of the screen off on Android? I don't know why everyone is up in their arms about this. I guess Google really wants to stick with two speakers. And not sure about the Apple's patent about folded OLED and/or others having the expertise to do it. Disc: Googler but don't work on the related teams.
- prolikewh0a 8y agoI really don't mind small notches. My current phone has one about the same height as the notification bar. This Pixel 3 notch is absolutely hideous compared.
- andrepd 8y agoNotches are hideous, and so are rounded screens (and excessively rounded designs in general -- just look at Chrome). It would be fine, though: more choice for those who prefer it, if were not for the fact that this is how "fads" and "marketing-imposed trends" work: I have no choice to buy a non-notched, square screen phone in 2018. I pray my current phone holds for another couple years, until this fad goes away.
- gehsty 8y agoI find rounded corners on screens to be quite nice. I think they will be one of the big design changes over the next few years. They make screens appear more natural / organic imo.
- rconti 8y agoNah, it's all fine. The only thing better than a notch would if if/when they can go completely edge-to-edge, but short of having a protruding earpiece and not having light/prox sensors, it won't happen.
- paulie_a 8y agoI absolutely hate edge to edge screens. It makes for a terrible user experience when you accidentally hit something with your palm. I also hate the super thin fad. Now I just have to buy a think bumper case so I can actually hold the phone.
- jayd16 8y agoI don't like the notch but I don't really see the bottom bezel as any worse of a design. If you want two front facing speakers you'd need two notches and that's even more of a developer burden.
- aclsid 8y agoNot all of them, check out the Xiaomi Mix 2. Pictures are ok but otherwise great phone and no notch. To use the front camera you need to turn the phone around though, but for me that's a better compromise than the notch.
- modzu 8y agocargo cult design
- anderber 8y agoThe iPhone does not have front facing speakers. Now that was their choice I understand, but to think that Google couldn't do it if they didn't want to is just not true. And there's plenty of Android phones with screen edge-to-edge. Heck, the old Essential Phone has it.
- bsimpson 8y agoThere's about half an inch on the bottom of the Essential. (It's my test phone.)
- tssva 8y agoExcept the Apple phones don't have edge to edge screens. Currently there has to be electronics located on the edge of screens. Apple has chosen to distribute these around their screens. Most Android phone makers have instead chosen to place them at the bottom.of the screen. This means that in general Apple has larger edges than Android notch phones on 3 sides but no bottom chin. Android notch phones in general have a smaller distance between the edge of the screen and the edge of the phone but a larger lower chin.
- askvictor 8y agoWhile I don't like the look of it myself, I'll hazard a guess as to the design thinking behind it: notifications/menu bar can now live either side of the notch without taking up 'content' space. So the screen either side of the notch is for the notifications bar/menu bar/I-can't-remember-the-android-term-for-it and the total space matches the space on the bottom of the phone, leaving a centered amount of screen space for 'content'. Because it's not most full-screen experiences are ever going to use the notch area.
- bootlooped 8y agoThe goal is to maximize screen-to-body ratio. Having an edge-to-edge screen is just a milestone related to that goal.
- bitL 8y agoGoogle could have copied Vivo Apex to beat Apple in bezel-less game once for all. Instead we get an ugly notch and a bezel at the bottom. Feels premium, I really fall for it, really! :-/
- oblio 8y agoJust as crazy, glass backs. They’re there mostly to facilitate wireless charging yet 50%+ of the phones that have them don’t support wireless charging...
- megy 8y agoGoing edge to edge is extremely difficult, and requires folding the screen past the edge. Even Samsung haven't managed to do this, only Apple.
- sundvor 8y agoThe Pixel Notch is the worst looking, most disappointing phone design I've seen for a long time - from someone where I actually had certain expectations. I can't stand the notch design band aid (the S8/9/Note just looks far far cleaner, has much greater usable screen size), and this has all but guaranteed my next phone will be another flagship Samsung.
- booleandilemma 8y agoEvery once in a while I start thinking about switching to Android and then I see a comment like this and I wake up.