4 ms·

I read this as "the work water-cooler was full of poison so I found some cheap antidote and now I only suffer mild headaches." I'm glad this person found some

I read this as "the work water-cooler was full of poison so I found some cheap antidote and now I only suffer mild headaches." I'm glad this person found some inexpensive tech that works for them. But if we only focus on blocking the sound (which is not that effective for some) rather than focusing on what it means to have an effective working environment, we're missing opportunities to shape our working cultures/environments to be one of "library quiet respectful". I'm extremely sensitive to sounds of all varieties. I don't understand how anyone works with music blasting into their ears. Even white/pink/brown-noise feels like a barrage of sound. Earplugs make me feel claustrophobic, and I have the uncontrollable urge to rip them out after 15 minutes. Noise-cancelling tech almost always fails to block human voices (our brains are hard-wired to listen for voices after all). At the risk of stating the obvious, we need to pay more attention to making more "zone-friendly" workspaces. I.e., not loud, open offices where everyone feels okay talking at full volume.

TeMPOraL 8y ago
Unfortunately, we're all doomed to seek workarounds for the time being. A "zone-friendly workspace" is an abstract concept that will show in productivity over long time. An open office is cheap right now, and will be cheaper as headcount increases. Then you have conflicting individual interests - programmers may dislike open floors, but sales people (apparently) love them, the bosses love them, and even among programmers there's always this likable extrovert who likes open floors and is vocal about it, ruining any chance of collective action. (It also seems people dislike open floor plans for different reasons. You don't like sounds. I don't mind sounds, I don't like feeling the presence of other people around me all the time.)
- amag 8y ago
  > It also seems people dislike open floor plans for different reasons. You don't like sounds. I don't mind sounds, I don't like feeling the presence of other people around me all the time. Alas, I suffer both but it's more socially acceptable to blame noise...
  - TeMPOraL 8y ago
    Now you make me wonder - maybe we're not the only ones, but people only talk about noise because the core issue is taboo...
    - ken 8y ago
      I don't know if taboo is an accurate description but I agree that we don't seem to be talking about this issue honestly, on either side. Every manager I've ever had claimed it was about saving money, but when pushed eventually admitted it wasn't really about money at all. It's like everybody is afraid to talk about what it really is about.
- ken 8y ago
  > programmers may dislike open floors, but sales people (apparently) love them, the bosses love them Strange how at most tech companies I've worked at, programmers got open floors, while sales people and bosses got private offices, then. Why are we putting everybody in an environment they dislike? Let's Gale–Shapley this and swap rooms. > An open office is cheap right now, and will be cheaper as headcount increases. Yet in my experience sales people always get private offices, so clearly it's not simply about saving money above all else.
commandlinefan 8y ago
> some cheap antidote That you have to pay for.
- mikestew 8y ago
  That's probably why they didn't use the word "free", yes.
- gpvos 8y ago
  The point was that it was cheaper than a water cooler with non-poisoned water. Free wasn't even mentioned at all.
twblalock 8y ago
Don't let the perfect become the enemy of the good. Most people don't have the power to make their employers remodel their offices. But most people can buy a pair of headphones and make their open office more bearable. Getting a new job is not a good solution either -- lots of tech jobs are in open offices or cubicle farms these days.
- TeMPOraL 8y ago
  After working most of my career in open and semi-open offices, I realize now that cubicles are the most brilliant invention ever. I wish I worked in a cubicle farm. The noise is the easiest thing to deal with, but cubicles create some semblance of private space, where you don't feel the presence of other people so much.
  - daveFNbuck 8y ago
    Last time I had a cubicle, the desks were much smaller than in the open plan part of the office. Half my team got headaches within the first hour from sitting too close to our monitors.
howard941 8y ago
I'm like you, mostly. It's not that the type of noise, it's the presence of noise that gets to me. Tried the earplugs, abandoned them because I don't like the feel or the wax buildup. My doesn't work workaround are a pair of JBL around the ear headphones sold under the false pretense of having ANR. Not that ANR would help with frat house-style conversations. > "library quiet respectful" !!! When 2 layers of management above the one I (software puke here) have access to responded to my request for quieter digs with this incite-ful retort: "We're not a library reading room" I realized I'm managed by persons who neither know nor care about my work product. I care though, so it seems time to move on. I really can't upvote your thoughts enough.
- ConceptJunkie 8y ago
  I think your situation is more common than not. Most people aren't bothered by sound, and most managers don't care. If they did, they wouldn't cheap out with open offices in the first place. It's the most discredited idea since phrenologuy.
  - howard941 8y ago
    I think it is more common than I want to believe but I haven't given up faith of finding a place with less inept middle management than this one, one that recognizes it'll get better work product, for less money, by supplying a library reading room-like environment for those who thrive in it. I'm lucky to be in a part of the country with lots of little hi tech places. Some day we'll be together
ConceptJunkie 8y ago
You can pay attention all you want, but your managers and your co-workers don't care. That's the way it is for me, and I hate it, but there's literally nothing I can do about it, except turn up my music and hope I find a new job soon.
raffael-vogler 8y ago
> At the risk of stating the obvious, we need to pay more attention to making more "zone-friendly" workspaces. I.e., not loud, open offices where everyone feels okay talking at full volume. In an office of six employees it takes six to maintain silence and only one to cause noise. That's the sad truth. Also stepping in and enforcing silence is a simple way to become unpopular very fast. Also lot of noises are caused by sounds which are direct expressions of someone's personality - that simply cannot be stopped by asking for it. It's a lost cause. And the reason why I resorted to QC25 and since two years ago to QC35. It's a subpar compromise - but there's just no better option when working with several people in one room. I'm very much looking forward to the wh1000xm3 - sadly, they seem to be sold out in Germany for weeks to come.
Carpetsmoker 8y ago
> Earplugs make me feel claustrophobic, and I have the uncontrollable urge to rip them out after 15 minutes. I used to have similar problems; but I've learned to adapt to them with time and patience. All other things being equal, I've found that earplugs can be very effective in reducing noise levels and stress, at the slight expense of vague uncomfortability.
- ken 8y ago
  It's the opposite for me. I'm a musician so I wear earplugs all the time, and find them very comfortable. But in an office setting, they cause me anxiety.
daveFNbuck 8y ago
I can work quietly on my own at home. I go to the office so I can talk to other people. A lot of people share your distaste for the noise level in open offices, but I don't think that asking everyone to sit quietly for 8 hours is a viable solution.
scruffyherder 8y ago
We called them offices, complete with walls and doors. But apparently people were too productive, so that had to come to an end.

TeMPOraL 8y ago

Unfortunately, we're all doomed to seek workarounds for the time being. A "zone-friendly workspace" is an abstract concept that will show in productivity over long time. An open office is cheap right now, and will be cheaper as headcount increases. Then you have conflicting individual interests - programmers may dislike open floors, but sales people (apparently) love them, the bosses love them, and even among programmers there's always this likable extrovert who likes open floors and is vocal about it, ruining any chance of collective action. (It also seems people dislike open floor plans for different reasons. You don't like sounds. I don't mind sounds, I don't like feeling the presence of other people around me all the time.)

amag 8y ago
> It also seems people dislike open floor plans for different reasons. You don't like sounds. I don't mind sounds, I don't like feeling the presence of other people around me all the time. Alas, I suffer both but it's more socially acceptable to blame noise...
- TeMPOraL 8y ago
  Now you make me wonder - maybe we're not the only ones, but people only talk about noise because the core issue is taboo...
  - ken 8y ago
    I don't know if taboo is an accurate description but I agree that we don't seem to be talking about this issue honestly, on either side. Every manager I've ever had claimed it was about saving money, but when pushed eventually admitted it wasn't really about money at all. It's like everybody is afraid to talk about what it really is about.
ken 8y ago
> programmers may dislike open floors, but sales people (apparently) love them, the bosses love them Strange how at most tech companies I've worked at, programmers got open floors, while sales people and bosses got private offices, then. Why are we putting everybody in an environment they dislike? Let's Gale–Shapley this and swap rooms. > An open office is cheap right now, and will be cheaper as headcount increases. Yet in my experience sales people always get private offices, so clearly it's not simply about saving money above all else.

commandlinefan 8y ago

> some cheap antidote That you have to pay for.

mikestew 8y ago
That's probably why they didn't use the word "free", yes.
gpvos 8y ago
The point was that it was cheaper than a water cooler with non-poisoned water. Free wasn't even mentioned at all.

twblalock 8y ago

Don't let the perfect become the enemy of the good. Most people don't have the power to make their employers remodel their offices. But most people can buy a pair of headphones and make their open office more bearable. Getting a new job is not a good solution either -- lots of tech jobs are in open offices or cubicle farms these days.

TeMPOraL 8y ago
After working most of my career in open and semi-open offices, I realize now that cubicles are the most brilliant invention ever. I wish I worked in a cubicle farm. The noise is the easiest thing to deal with, but cubicles create some semblance of private space, where you don't feel the presence of other people so much.
- daveFNbuck 8y ago
  Last time I had a cubicle, the desks were much smaller than in the open plan part of the office. Half my team got headaches within the first hour from sitting too close to our monitors.

howard941 8y ago

I'm like you, mostly. It's not that the type of noise, it's the presence of noise that gets to me. Tried the earplugs, abandoned them because I don't like the feel or the wax buildup. My doesn't work workaround are a pair of JBL around the ear headphones sold under the false pretense of having ANR. Not that ANR would help with frat house-style conversations. > "library quiet respectful" !!! When 2 layers of management above the one I (software puke here) have access to responded to my request for quieter digs with this incite-ful retort: "We're not a library reading room" I realized I'm managed by persons who neither know nor care about my work product. I care though, so it seems time to move on. I really can't upvote your thoughts enough.

ConceptJunkie 8y ago
I think your situation is more common than not. Most people aren't bothered by sound, and most managers don't care. If they did, they wouldn't cheap out with open offices in the first place. It's the most discredited idea since phrenologuy.
- howard941 8y ago
  I think it is more common than I want to believe but I haven't given up faith of finding a place with less inept middle management than this one, one that recognizes it'll get better work product, for less money, by supplying a library reading room-like environment for those who thrive in it. I'm lucky to be in a part of the country with lots of little hi tech places. Some day we'll be together

ConceptJunkie 8y ago

You can pay attention all you want, but your managers and your co-workers don't care. That's the way it is for me, and I hate it, but there's literally nothing I can do about it, except turn up my music and hope I find a new job soon.

raffael-vogler 8y ago

> At the risk of stating the obvious, we need to pay more attention to making more "zone-friendly" workspaces. I.e., not loud, open offices where everyone feels okay talking at full volume. In an office of six employees it takes six to maintain silence and only one to cause noise. That's the sad truth. Also stepping in and enforcing silence is a simple way to become unpopular very fast. Also lot of noises are caused by sounds which are direct expressions of someone's personality - that simply cannot be stopped by asking for it. It's a lost cause. And the reason why I resorted to QC25 and since two years ago to QC35. It's a subpar compromise - but there's just no better option when working with several people in one room. I'm very much looking forward to the wh1000xm3 - sadly, they seem to be sold out in Germany for weeks to come.

Carpetsmoker 8y ago

> Earplugs make me feel claustrophobic, and I have the uncontrollable urge to rip them out after 15 minutes. I used to have similar problems; but I've learned to adapt to them with time and patience. All other things being equal, I've found that earplugs can be very effective in reducing noise levels and stress, at the slight expense of vague uncomfortability.

ken 8y ago
It's the opposite for me. I'm a musician so I wear earplugs all the time, and find them very comfortable. But in an office setting, they cause me anxiety.

daveFNbuck 8y ago

I can work quietly on my own at home. I go to the office so I can talk to other people. A lot of people share your distaste for the noise level in open offices, but I don't think that asking everyone to sit quietly for 8 hours is a viable solution.

scruffyherder 8y ago

We called them offices, complete with walls and doors. But apparently people were too productive, so that had to come to an end.