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I have friends who I have witnessed converting to flat earth-ism and anti-vax-ism. I am perplexed by the whole thing, because any thoughts you are likely to ha

by netcan 8y ago

I have friends who I have witnessed converting to flat earth-ism and anti-vax-ism. I am perplexed by the whole thing, because any thoughts you are likely to have (stupid people, trolls..) are wrong. It's just hard to form/adopt any kind of theory of the phenomenon. At its core I think Scientism is a good name for it, because it does seem somewhat similar to Marxism (in particular) and Freudianism, the "theories" Karl Popper and F. Hayek had in mind when they coined these terms. I usually have opinions and theories about everything. I have nothing here. No idea what's going on, other than a suspicion paranoia is plays a role.

sohex 8y ago
In what sense does this 'Scientism' recall Marxism? It seems to me that what we're seeing here is an abject disconnect from factual reality. These people are refuting established fact with no regard for truth. Marxism may not align with your economic views, but that doesn't lessen its historical place as a legitimate critique of a labor system.
- netcan 8y ago
  I think Karl Popper coined the term or at least the usage. It came out of a big debate with multiple highly regarded critics a lot for things but iircc Marxism and Freudianism (which by that time were huge fields) were the big notable targets. At the time it was associated with the notion that history, psychology, government & social "sciences," were establishing undeniable facts like Newton & Darwin had. Popper basically advocated for a standard separating scientific theories from nonscientific ones, like Marx' & Freud's. Refutability & such. It was a big debate, Popper's arguments did became a sort of standard. I brought up Marx in particular because (a) I've never met and adamant freudian and (b) because I think Marxism (and a lot of revolution oriented political ideologies).. lends to a paranoid telling.
YeGoblynQueenne 8y ago
>> I am perplexed by the whole thing, because any thoughts you are likely to have (stupid people, trolls..) are wrong. I know. I've struggled with that kind of thing too. Educated, intelligent people who are competent and successful professionals will suddendly start spouting madness like anti-vaxxer propaganda and refuse to vaccinate their kids etc. I've had some heated arguments that made some people upset that I really didn't want to make upset and now when they start, I just shut up and stare at my plate awkwardly, like. It's not like I want to win any arguments. It's just, educated people should not talk bollocks like "vaccines cause autism". It's just not right. It's like listening to your mother describe her favourite porn or something, it's ...disturbing. I don't know how to deal with that. It just ends up making me doubt myself. Like, if I can't trust education to help me figure out what's true and what's crackpot nonsense, then what?
- rstuart4133 8y ago
  > if I can't trust education to help me figure out what's true and what's crackpot nonsense, then what? You sound young. When I was born was no TV, no IVF, no RU-286, no drones hunting down foreign soldiers, no trolling on social media, no Cambridge Analytica, no Facebook to take my privacy, no camera on every street corner, no face recognition, nuclear power was going to be too cheap to metre, no climate change theory and as a consequence no education telling me how to deal with any of those things. Yet when I look around most people have a similar ethical compass to me on those things. Obviously we didn't acquire it by trusting education.

by netcan 8y ago

sohex 8y ago

In what sense does this 'Scientism' recall Marxism? It seems to me that what we're seeing here is an abject disconnect from factual reality. These people are refuting established fact with no regard for truth. Marxism may not align with your economic views, but that doesn't lessen its historical place as a legitimate critique of a labor system.

netcan 8y ago
I think Karl Popper coined the term or at least the usage. It came out of a big debate with multiple highly regarded critics a lot for things but iircc Marxism and Freudianism (which by that time were huge fields) were the big notable targets. At the time it was associated with the notion that history, psychology, government & social "sciences," were establishing undeniable facts like Newton & Darwin had. Popper basically advocated for a standard separating scientific theories from nonscientific ones, like Marx' & Freud's. Refutability & such. It was a big debate, Popper's arguments did became a sort of standard. I brought up Marx in particular because (a) I've never met and adamant freudian and (b) because I think Marxism (and a lot of revolution oriented political ideologies).. lends to a paranoid telling.

YeGoblynQueenne 8y ago

>> I am perplexed by the whole thing, because any thoughts you are likely to have (stupid people, trolls..) are wrong. I know. I've struggled with that kind of thing too. Educated, intelligent people who are competent and successful professionals will suddendly start spouting madness like anti-vaxxer propaganda and refuse to vaccinate their kids etc. I've had some heated arguments that made some people upset that I really didn't want to make upset and now when they start, I just shut up and stare at my plate awkwardly, like. It's not like I want to win any arguments. It's just, educated people should not talk bollocks like "vaccines cause autism". It's just not right. It's like listening to your mother describe her favourite porn or something, it's ...disturbing. I don't know how to deal with that. It just ends up making me doubt myself. Like, if I can't trust education to help me figure out what's true and what's crackpot nonsense, then what?

rstuart4133 8y ago
> if I can't trust education to help me figure out what's true and what's crackpot nonsense, then what? You sound young. When I was born was no TV, no IVF, no RU-286, no drones hunting down foreign soldiers, no trolling on social media, no Cambridge Analytica, no Facebook to take my privacy, no camera on every street corner, no face recognition, nuclear power was going to be too cheap to metre, no climate change theory and as a consequence no education telling me how to deal with any of those things. Yet when I look around most people have a similar ethical compass to me on those things. Obviously we didn't acquire it by trusting education.