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Why don’t business leaders consider good coder for management?

2 points by nailuj27 8y ago

peteypao 8y ago
Because they're two separate skills. Being good at development doesn't mean you're good at management.
vectorEQ 8y ago
same reason they don't consider plumbers for management.
asutekku 8y ago
Because honestly, most coders are really bad at management. They are two completely different skill sets.
iamNumber4 8y ago
Skills can be learned and honed. I have had several managers who have only managed that are terrible managers. Based on that, the problem is a value add proposition. The really good coders might add more value as really good coders. Transitioning that person to a position of manager, might be negative value as there will be impact as a really good programmer will have to be replaced, and then trained to be a manager. If you really want to transition to management from any previous role, go get outside training, add degrees or certifications to your resume. Apply for the next management position, or jump ship to a new company hiring in as a manager. It can also give you some leverage in upcoming reviews after being passed over for management roles for a raise to make compensation on par as if you were doing a manager position. Where as if you are more valuable as a developer you should be compensated for the job you are doing, but don’t want to be doing. I would also stress to, for anyone regardless of role to also negotiate for a severance package so that your cheaper to keep than to be let go. Start it low at a month or two of salary. Try for it lue of a next raise or a smaller raise plus severance when offered future raises. If you do get a severance package (in writing) make sure each future review you negotiate more months of pay in the severance. Also only accept the severance if it does not specify exit terms, so any exit from the organization you are compensated regardless.
- nailuj27 8y ago
  Thanks for your response. We grew to the point where we needed someone to take over a role of management. And someone who isn’t that good at coding that’s getting the role. It’s interesting, I’m the one who still clearing most code reviews or designing hard projects. I’ll definitely keep in mind the severance packages negotiations if I go to a bigger company.
  - iamNumber4 8y ago
    Also try to get your severance in months of pay and not hard dollar amounts if you can. Severance is a win win, as the business doesn’t have to pay you now and has no impact on the current bottom line. So at the surface there is no impact to throwing you a bone if they let you go. where I gets fun is when you rack up 6-8 months, as then they have to make you happy, or their paying you and a new employee (your replacement) for the terms of severance. Having it in months, then it is based on current rate pay on exit, so if you get significant future raises even more pain for them on exit.
- iamNumber4 8y ago
  And another thing, having severance will protect you from future mangers that fill the role you were trying for, especially if that position had authority over you. Bad managers, like things their way, some even build shit lists of employees they want out. So they do things like labeling people as having “communication issues” with no proof or examples (aka a kafkatrap). They then might also direct you to do something, then let you take the blame and lie stating they never to you and their boss, hence giving more fuel to pushing you out the door. Having severance protects you from all this, as you are now untouchable by the new manager.
nailuj27 8y ago
If you have done it, could share how? Were you 80% coding 20% managing?
- iamNumber4 8y ago
  Right now I’m managing a team of 10, and still find the time to do some coding. Any more than 10 I need to charge members to be team leaders to take burden off when I know it is too much, If you manage through stewardship, explain tasks and expectations, trust your report will make the right decisions. Then it’s mostly monitor allowing people good at their jobs to do their job. Then constant conversations individually, stand ups are great, but one on one as well every day. I still find time to take ease to put down tasks. However most of my time is designing and grooming tasks, directing traffic, and unblocking my development team. The job of a manager is to get out of the teams way, and to stay on top of roadblocks to keep all the lanes open. I also take responsiblity for watching out for process/workflow improvements to always keep improving, faster, better, less effort as that means more work done in less time and resource strain.
bediger4000 8y ago
I think this is a great question, and it has some precedent in other professions. Non-lawyers are not allowed to supervise a lawyer's work in law, as I understand it. There's always complications dealing with the law. When I worked in aerospace, there were various assertions about structural engineers getting into management over more specialized engineers because of their "whole vehicle" orientation or some such.

2 points by nailuj27 8y ago

peteypao 8y ago

Because they're two separate skills. Being good at development doesn't mean you're good at management.

vectorEQ 8y ago

same reason they don't consider plumbers for management.

asutekku 8y ago

Because honestly, most coders are really bad at management. They are two completely different skill sets.

iamNumber4 8y ago

Skills can be learned and honed. I have had several managers who have only managed that are terrible managers. Based on that, the problem is a value add proposition. The really good coders might add more value as really good coders. Transitioning that person to a position of manager, might be negative value as there will be impact as a really good programmer will have to be replaced, and then trained to be a manager. If you really want to transition to management from any previous role, go get outside training, add degrees or certifications to your resume. Apply for the next management position, or jump ship to a new company hiring in as a manager. It can also give you some leverage in upcoming reviews after being passed over for management roles for a raise to make compensation on par as if you were doing a manager position. Where as if you are more valuable as a developer you should be compensated for the job you are doing, but don’t want to be doing. I would also stress to, for anyone regardless of role to also negotiate for a severance package so that your cheaper to keep than to be let go. Start it low at a month or two of salary. Try for it lue of a next raise or a smaller raise plus severance when offered future raises. If you do get a severance package (in writing) make sure each future review you negotiate more months of pay in the severance. Also only accept the severance if it does not specify exit terms, so any exit from the organization you are compensated regardless.

nailuj27 8y ago
Thanks for your response. We grew to the point where we needed someone to take over a role of management. And someone who isn’t that good at coding that’s getting the role. It’s interesting, I’m the one who still clearing most code reviews or designing hard projects. I’ll definitely keep in mind the severance packages negotiations if I go to a bigger company.
- iamNumber4 8y ago
  Also try to get your severance in months of pay and not hard dollar amounts if you can. Severance is a win win, as the business doesn’t have to pay you now and has no impact on the current bottom line. So at the surface there is no impact to throwing you a bone if they let you go. where I gets fun is when you rack up 6-8 months, as then they have to make you happy, or their paying you and a new employee (your replacement) for the terms of severance. Having it in months, then it is based on current rate pay on exit, so if you get significant future raises even more pain for them on exit.
iamNumber4 8y ago
And another thing, having severance will protect you from future mangers that fill the role you were trying for, especially if that position had authority over you. Bad managers, like things their way, some even build shit lists of employees they want out. So they do things like labeling people as having “communication issues” with no proof or examples (aka a kafkatrap). They then might also direct you to do something, then let you take the blame and lie stating they never to you and their boss, hence giving more fuel to pushing you out the door. Having severance protects you from all this, as you are now untouchable by the new manager.

nailuj27 8y ago

If you have done it, could share how? Were you 80% coding 20% managing?

iamNumber4 8y ago
Right now I’m managing a team of 10, and still find the time to do some coding. Any more than 10 I need to charge members to be team leaders to take burden off when I know it is too much, If you manage through stewardship, explain tasks and expectations, trust your report will make the right decisions. Then it’s mostly monitor allowing people good at their jobs to do their job. Then constant conversations individually, stand ups are great, but one on one as well every day. I still find time to take ease to put down tasks. However most of my time is designing and grooming tasks, directing traffic, and unblocking my development team. The job of a manager is to get out of the teams way, and to stay on top of roadblocks to keep all the lanes open. I also take responsiblity for watching out for process/workflow improvements to always keep improving, faster, better, less effort as that means more work done in less time and resource strain.

bediger4000 8y ago

I think this is a great question, and it has some precedent in other professions. Non-lawyers are not allowed to supervise a lawyer's work in law, as I understand it. There's always complications dealing with the law. When I worked in aerospace, there were various assertions about structural engineers getting into management over more specialized engineers because of their "whole vehicle" orientation or some such.