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I don't see your point. They pay for healthcare and electricity just like any other consumer. They produce and sell to the market, and spend some of the proceed

I don't see your point. They pay for healthcare and electricity just like any other consumer. They produce and sell to the market, and spend some of the proceeds on health care and electricity. This post illuminates what economic and life style benefits their communal living provides. There's no claim that they would live better totally unconnected from civilization.

humanrebar 8y ago
Presumably they are paying below average tax rates for all definitions of average.
- ttonkytonk 8y ago
  What does that mean?
  - humanrebar 8y ago
    If everyone grew their own food in communes, the tax base wouldn't be there for Medicaid, highways, etc.
    - Arn_Thor 8y ago
      As the US healthcare system works, most certainly not. Fortunately there are plenty of alternative models around the world where health care is much more affordable for society
jlawson 8y ago
The point is that it doesn't scale. This community can only exist because it's a tiny minority surrounded by a much larger, depersonalized, "dirty" society which handles all the big problems for them. Problems including: National defense, international relations, technological research and infrastructure, advanced education, manufacture/import/transport of all kinds of exotic goods and medicines, law enforcement, care of the elderly. It's easy to say it's a better way to live, until you realize that it can only exist because it's held up by all the people paying the costs of the "worse" way. As a thought experiment: Think of how much different our larger society could be if there was some sort of alien galactic society that handled those kinds of problems for us.
- s73v3r_ 8y ago
  So what? The reason Google and Apple and Amazon and any other business is also due to a lot of that stuff as well.
- ttonkytonk 8y ago
  That may be true, but is that a result of the larger society being "dirty"? I think people who worship competition take for granted the fundamental importance of cooperation, indeed to what degree cooperation handles many of the big problems for them.
- psergeant 8y ago
  Dude, it’s a profitable farm. The only main difference is how they allocate ownership and organise labour. Your criticism applies equally to all farms.
  - jlawson 8y ago
    Not really profitable. It's largely a tax dodge actually. They avoid using money to artificially underreport their production and consumption. If they paid tax on the real values, would they still be profitable? Maybe, maybe not, but it would be a tougher situation. My criticism is that it doesn't scale and they're freeloaders. And you can bet if enough people started dodging taxes like this, the IRS would be on the case. But it's small scale so they get away with it. I don't think they're doing something morally wrong, to be clear. Just that it can't scale. Other farms pay tax fully, and my criticism doesn't apply.
    - maxander 8y ago
      “Eating food you grew yourself” is a tax dodge? What about making your own improvements to your house? Cooking your own food? Doing your own laundry? You could pay for any number of services, with the associated tax. So you’re about as much of a tax dodge as these folks. But that’s a radical expansion of the notion of taxable economic activity. The IRS trying to get that notion accepted as law would be practically unthinkable. There was a time, for that matter, where most of the U.S. economy was agrarian. The world still worked. There were fewer government services, to be sure- but if most people are members of semi-self-sufficient communities, fewer services would be needed.

humanrebar 8y ago

Presumably they are paying below average tax rates for all definitions of average.

ttonkytonk 8y ago
What does that mean?
- humanrebar 8y ago
  If everyone grew their own food in communes, the tax base wouldn't be there for Medicaid, highways, etc.
  - Arn_Thor 8y ago
    As the US healthcare system works, most certainly not. Fortunately there are plenty of alternative models around the world where health care is much more affordable for society

jlawson 8y ago

The point is that it doesn't scale. This community can only exist because it's a tiny minority surrounded by a much larger, depersonalized, "dirty" society which handles all the big problems for them. Problems including: National defense, international relations, technological research and infrastructure, advanced education, manufacture/import/transport of all kinds of exotic goods and medicines, law enforcement, care of the elderly. It's easy to say it's a better way to live, until you realize that it can only exist because it's held up by all the people paying the costs of the "worse" way. As a thought experiment: Think of how much different our larger society could be if there was some sort of alien galactic society that handled those kinds of problems for us.

s73v3r_ 8y ago
So what? The reason Google and Apple and Amazon and any other business is also due to a lot of that stuff as well.
ttonkytonk 8y ago
That may be true, but is that a result of the larger society being "dirty"? I think people who worship competition take for granted the fundamental importance of cooperation, indeed to what degree cooperation handles many of the big problems for them.
psergeant 8y ago
Dude, it’s a profitable farm. The only main difference is how they allocate ownership and organise labour. Your criticism applies equally to all farms.
- jlawson 8y ago
  Not really profitable. It's largely a tax dodge actually. They avoid using money to artificially underreport their production and consumption. If they paid tax on the real values, would they still be profitable? Maybe, maybe not, but it would be a tougher situation. My criticism is that it doesn't scale and they're freeloaders. And you can bet if enough people started dodging taxes like this, the IRS would be on the case. But it's small scale so they get away with it. I don't think they're doing something morally wrong, to be clear. Just that it can't scale. Other farms pay tax fully, and my criticism doesn't apply.
  - maxander 8y ago
    “Eating food you grew yourself” is a tax dodge? What about making your own improvements to your house? Cooking your own food? Doing your own laundry? You could pay for any number of services, with the associated tax. So you’re about as much of a tax dodge as these folks. But that’s a radical expansion of the notion of taxable economic activity. The IRS trying to get that notion accepted as law would be practically unthinkable. There was a time, for that matter, where most of the U.S. economy was agrarian. The world still worked. There were fewer government services, to be sure- but if most people are members of semi-self-sufficient communities, fewer services would be needed.