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I'm sure an active lifestyle leads to less money spent on medical care, but the much larger reason would be the expected youth of their members. All the photos
by Latteland 8y ago
I'm sure an active lifestyle leads to less money spent on medical care, but the much larger reason would be the expected youth of their members. All the photos were of apparently younger healthy people. When they start getting older, medical issues will show up and the cost of medical care would skyrocket. Now it's pretty clear to me that in the us we should provide medical care as a basic human right for all citizens. Their annual cost of $686.82 per person is probably less than my monthly cost for a small family.
- peteretep 8y agoThey're been running since the mid-70s; wonder what they do with the old people
- King-Aaron 8y agoThey probably send them off to watch some lovely videos and hear some lovely music in a little room, before being turned into crackers.
- toomanybeersies 8y agoThe cynic in me says that they rejoin normal society. You don't see many old counter-culturals.
- mercutio2 8y agoOften people do leave, for a variety of reasons, many of which I’d categorize as a combination of “tired of the young messy loud communards” and “East Wind deliberately has very limited filters on membership, and I’m tired of dealing with the mentally ill/people’s alcohol abuse”. Many of the older folks who leave go to Twin Oaks, which is much more restrictive and thus tends to have less drama. But many people have chosen to live out their golden years at East Wind. It’s a great place to get lots of youthful energy, and avoid the isolation of modern American culture.
- boonewheeler 8y agoThere are a good number of members at East Wind in their late 50's and 60's. There are also a good number of long term members with memberships of 20,25,30, and one with 40 years. At East Wind there is retirement after 25 years "on the system" as well as medical retirement.
- paxus 8y agoWe keep them. Twin Oaks first built a clinic space connected to the residence which is designed to handle mobility and other age related issues. Then we built a hospice. In the 20 years i have lived at Twin Oaks, only a few people over 65 have left the community to live elsewhere, the significant majority have stayed with us until they died.
- zdragnar 8y ago> basic human right You mean "entitlement". In the US, "rights" are inherent and natural things; those outlined in the constitution are "negative rights" in that they are prohibitions on the government infringing upon them. As such, "medical care" doesn't make sense as a right, because it's a service provided to you, not inherent to you in the sense that speech or association between individuals. Of course, "entitlement" as a word comes with a negative connotation around here, but that's also because most or all entitlements are means-tested and not available to everyone. As for you the cost, you're spot on. Insurance for myself and my wife is roughly $1000 / month (paid for by my company of 8 people). An active lifestyle won't compensate for things like pregnancy, Alzheimer's, osteoporosis, glaucoma, arthritis, or any other of the innumerable ways that our bodies have yet to catch up with our lifespans.
- yokaze 8y ago"Rights" is the correct term. A right is an entitlement. To my knowledge, the differentiation in law is Negative and Positive rights: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_and_positive_rights https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_and_positive_rights
- mrslave 8y agoPrivileges and rights are the terms I was taught in place of positive rights and negative rights, respectively, in your link. I think they are better terms. Privileges impose an obligation on others. Rights do not. Positive right is very similar to the equivalent alternative term (privilege) but negative rights unnecessarily confuses the conversation. Is there an impact on others and is it really negative? It appears to simply be used in the opposite of positive right but the adjective negative is misleading.
- wz1000 8y agoI am not convinced that there is any meaningful distinction between "negative" and "positive" rights. Take property rights, the classic example of a "negative" right. But what are property rights but an entitlement that the government will protect your property? What use is the right to fair trial without an entitlement that the government will provide you a lawyer and select an impartial jury? What use is a "negative" right to liberty or free speech without an entitlement that when someone tries to infringe these rights, the government will protect you?
- entwife 8y agoI investigated living in a similar commune. They used public assistance for major medical, which everyone qualified for because their pretax income was so low.
- ada1981 8y agoThat sounds great. If you can keep your income low and lifestyle high; you benefit and don’t need to contribute to things like wars you don’t like. Also, since insurance is now required, best to qualify for the free version. Living below the poverty line with luxury is essentially the world that folks want to achieve with UBI and robotics / AI. Perhaps it’s possible now.
- kevin_thibedeau 8y agoIt's only possible for them because of the population cap. Things would degenerate swiftly with a larger community.
- ada1981 8y agoSure, but you could have a network of affilited ~100 person groups.
- mercutio2 8y agoTwin Oaks does this quite a bit, East Wind didn’t so much, historically, mainly because Missouri is much more stingy than Virginia. The FEC’s self-insurance fund generally covers major medical expenses, but communities are expected to get the best deal they can for medical expenses, which includes exploring self-insured discounts and public assistance where available.
- DoreenMichele 8y agobut the much larger reason would be the expected youth of their members. All the photos were of apparently younger healthy people I agree the photos seem to be of young people. But some of them are at a distance etc. So I wouldn't assume this is accurate. When I was 48, someone who thought I was the older sister of my adult sons -- and pegged their ages accurately -- guessed that I was 30. I have been repeatedly mistaken for their older sister. If you remain physically active, you can appear younger than you are. This doesn't guarantee that you don't have health issues. (I have a serious medical condition.)
- socialist_coder 8y agoThey say that half their active members are under 30 on another page.
- lawlessone 8y ago>if you remain physically active, you can appear younger than you are. I think it's just the rest of us look older )
- paxus 8y agoThe average age (for adults) at Twin Oaks is about 45. At Acorn it is about 35. I have not been to East Wind for a long time, but it is likely somewhere between these two ages.
- phkahler 8y ago>> Now it's pretty clear to me that in the us we should provide medical care as a basic human right for all citizens. If that is a right, then someone has an obligation to provide it. "The government" isn't a provider, some doctor is and they aren't forced to work for free.
- objectivetruth 8y agoThe way our right to an education has resulted in a million teachers volunteering for no money? Or the way our right to an attorney has resulted in the complete collapse of the criminal defense attorney sector? The government can be a funder without being a provider.
- mercutio2 8y agoEast Wind, like most members of the FEC [0], has a joint self-insurance pool for catastrophic healthcare costs. This limits administrative overhead. There are a combination of factors that limit outlays for the community: As you note, the demographics skew young (in any given year, there is usually a sizable older cohort, but a lot of people move to Twin Oaks [1] as they get older). Additionally, almost everyone is low-income, and thus people are eligible for subsidized routine health care through the state (although Missouri is pretty stingy). Finally, mostly people just don’t choose to consume much healthcare. [0] http://thefec.org [1] http://twinoaks.org