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Sounds accurate. There is no realistic path to citizenship or even permanent residency in the USA for highly skilled immigrants from India. While the high salar

by paxy 8y ago

Sounds accurate. There is no realistic path to citizenship or even permanent residency in the USA for highly skilled immigrants from India. While the high salaries and quality of life are attractive for someone straight out of college, you quickly realize that this isn't the place to be if you want to buy a house, start a family, or make any other major life decision when you could be asked to pack up and leave tomorrow for any or no reason.

fjsolwmv 8y ago
That sounds great. Come to USA after college, make a million dollars in a few years, move back home, get married, and build the Indian economy. You don't want a country where every who has the ability will leave.
- phakding 8y ago
  > That sounds great. Come to USA after college, make a million dollars in a few years, move back home, get married, and build the Indian economy LOL. Your comment doesn't even pass smell taste. How many people working as developers will make million dollars in few years after paying payroll taxes? Federal, state, social security, medicare on top of paying for housing, car insurance, health insurance, renter/house owner's insurance, trips back to homeland etc etc. Forget about fun and entertainment, or clothes, shoes, phones, computers, internet etc. Even with extreme level of penny pinching, 40% rate of saving is almost unachievable. Now assuming every single immigrant that comes here after college makes $150 right off the bat, that $60K in bank every year. At that rate, to save million dollars, one would need 16.66 years. That too assuming there are no incidentals that become money pits. Good luck getting married at almost 40 or getting uprooted and having to adjust to the different work environment or progress in the industry without any contacts. It's not all puppys and rainbows.
  - sheepmullet 8y ago
    > Even with extreme level of penny pinching, 40% rate of saving is almost unachievable. Hah that’s a wealthy American point of view. When I first moved to the US I was saving 85% of my after tax income. Most (non-scam) Indian H1B holders I know are saving 6 figures a year.
    - phakding 8y ago
      I am one of those and almost everyone ( with exception of one or two every class) in my masters programs we're on F1 Visa. Most of my friends work six figure jobs in cities nowhere close to as expensive as Bay area. I know for a fact, nobody has accumulated million dollars in cash. Close to million in worth? Yes if you count real estate with mortgage, but not that kid of cash. Math doesn't add up.
      - sheepmullet 8y ago
        > I know for a fact, nobody has accumulated million dollars in cash. I agree, a million in a few years would be rare. In 10 years though? It’s certainly reasonable.
        bdamm 8y ago
        Maybe for a shut-in. I never had the patience to save like that. One of the advantages of SF Bay is the culture.
        phakding 8y ago
        Never said it's impossible. Is it practical though? If you are migrating to a country 8000 miles away, would you live like you lived in the slums of Dharavi? Some will. Most though, would like to live a normal life commensurate with their income.
  - gspetr 8y ago
    The "google truck engineer" story proves otherwise: https://www.businessinsider.com/google-employee-lives-in-truck-in-parking-lot-2015-10 https://www.businessinsider.com/google-employee-lives-in-tru...
    - phakding 8y ago
      One story doesn't make a pattern.
      - gspetr 8y ago
        You never made an argument about requiring one in the first place. Where there's a will, there's a way.
- untog 8y ago
  It doesn't sound great for the individual, though. Standard of life in the US and Canada is higher than in India, and they'll likely want their kids to grow up in better circumstances than they did, if that's possible. Besides, you're not going to make a million dollars in a few years. New grad salaries take a while to turn into experienced developer salaries, and the money you make from 20-30 is unlikely to last you all the way to retirement, even if you return to India.
  - User23 8y ago
    Parent's point is that rather than just improving the lives of a few hundred thousand emigrants, it's far more moral to improve the lives of hundreds of millions of Indians and that can't happen if the best and brightest all leave.
    - untog 8y ago
      Sure, and my counterpoint is that it doesn't make individual sense, so as moral as it may be, few are likely to do it. I'm sympathetic to the idea, I just think these things need to benefit both the individual and the group in order to succeed.
    - sbmthakur 8y ago
      Yup. Brain drain is a real problem in India. Keeping talent in the country is a big problem and China is beating us here too. It also true that we don't have the capability to support large number of talented folks. Thinks are improving for sure. But it will take much more effort to improve the situation rapidly.
tabtab 8y ago
Re: "you quickly realize that this isn't the place to be if you want to buy a house, start a family, or make any other major life decision" The reason rents are so high in California is because everybody and their dog are trying to do the same thing. There's only so much room in California. That's just the reality. Too bad there are not incentives to create start-ups in places with relatively depressed economies, like Chicago and the Rust Belt.

by paxy 8y ago

fjsolwmv 8y ago

That sounds great. Come to USA after college, make a million dollars in a few years, move back home, get married, and build the Indian economy. You don't want a country where every who has the ability will leave.

phakding 8y ago
> That sounds great. Come to USA after college, make a million dollars in a few years, move back home, get married, and build the Indian economy LOL. Your comment doesn't even pass smell taste. How many people working as developers will make million dollars in few years after paying payroll taxes? Federal, state, social security, medicare on top of paying for housing, car insurance, health insurance, renter/house owner's insurance, trips back to homeland etc etc. Forget about fun and entertainment, or clothes, shoes, phones, computers, internet etc. Even with extreme level of penny pinching, 40% rate of saving is almost unachievable. Now assuming every single immigrant that comes here after college makes $150 right off the bat, that $60K in bank every year. At that rate, to save million dollars, one would need 16.66 years. That too assuming there are no incidentals that become money pits. Good luck getting married at almost 40 or getting uprooted and having to adjust to the different work environment or progress in the industry without any contacts. It's not all puppys and rainbows.
- sheepmullet 8y ago
  > Even with extreme level of penny pinching, 40% rate of saving is almost unachievable. Hah that’s a wealthy American point of view. When I first moved to the US I was saving 85% of my after tax income. Most (non-scam) Indian H1B holders I know are saving 6 figures a year.
  - phakding 8y ago
    I am one of those and almost everyone ( with exception of one or two every class) in my masters programs we're on F1 Visa. Most of my friends work six figure jobs in cities nowhere close to as expensive as Bay area. I know for a fact, nobody has accumulated million dollars in cash. Close to million in worth? Yes if you count real estate with mortgage, but not that kid of cash. Math doesn't add up.
    - sheepmullet 8y ago
      > I know for a fact, nobody has accumulated million dollars in cash. I agree, a million in a few years would be rare. In 10 years though? It’s certainly reasonable.
      - bdamm 8y ago
        Maybe for a shut-in. I never had the patience to save like that. One of the advantages of SF Bay is the culture.
      - phakding 8y ago
        Never said it's impossible. Is it practical though? If you are migrating to a country 8000 miles away, would you live like you lived in the slums of Dharavi? Some will. Most though, would like to live a normal life commensurate with their income.
- gspetr 8y ago
  The "google truck engineer" story proves otherwise: https://www.businessinsider.com/google-employee-lives-in-truck-in-parking-lot-2015-10 https://www.businessinsider.com/google-employee-lives-in-tru...
  - phakding 8y ago
    One story doesn't make a pattern.
    - gspetr 8y ago
      You never made an argument about requiring one in the first place. Where there's a will, there's a way.
untog 8y ago
It doesn't sound great for the individual, though. Standard of life in the US and Canada is higher than in India, and they'll likely want their kids to grow up in better circumstances than they did, if that's possible. Besides, you're not going to make a million dollars in a few years. New grad salaries take a while to turn into experienced developer salaries, and the money you make from 20-30 is unlikely to last you all the way to retirement, even if you return to India.
- User23 8y ago
  Parent's point is that rather than just improving the lives of a few hundred thousand emigrants, it's far more moral to improve the lives of hundreds of millions of Indians and that can't happen if the best and brightest all leave.
  - untog 8y ago
    Sure, and my counterpoint is that it doesn't make individual sense, so as moral as it may be, few are likely to do it. I'm sympathetic to the idea, I just think these things need to benefit both the individual and the group in order to succeed.
  - sbmthakur 8y ago
    Yup. Brain drain is a real problem in India. Keeping talent in the country is a big problem and China is beating us here too. It also true that we don't have the capability to support large number of talented folks. Thinks are improving for sure. But it will take much more effort to improve the situation rapidly.

tabtab 8y ago

Re: "you quickly realize that this isn't the place to be if you want to buy a house, start a family, or make any other major life decision" The reason rents are so high in California is because everybody and their dog are trying to do the same thing. There's only so much room in California. That's just the reality. Too bad there are not incentives to create start-ups in places with relatively depressed economies, like Chicago and the Rust Belt.