5 ms·

Are people with GCs screwed too? I've been postponing getting a citizenship, for no particular reason, but I'm now wondering if I should get on that just so tha

Are people with GCs screwed too? I've been postponing getting a citizenship, for no particular reason, but I'm now wondering if I should get on that just so that I don't somehow get bounced out of the country or get locked outside when I travel.

echan00 8y ago
As a Canadian (in the Bay Area) today, getting bounced out of the U.S is always at the back of my mind.
techsupporter 8y ago
A friend of mine tells me that one of his biggest regrets from the past handful of years is not having applied for and received citizenship when President Obama was president. He has a misdemeanor (for something that almost every US citizen would consider trivial) from when he was a teenager but because of when it happened and what it is, naturalizing would require a waiver from USCIS in order to proceed (and to not be deported). President Obama's USCIS granted waivers for conduct so many years back almost as a matter of course. President Trump's USCIS--according to the two immigration lawyers my friend has consulted--has not only stopped granting the waivers, they refer applicants for the waivers instead to deportation proceedings. There's no one to advocate for people like him to be able to remain because he is a convicted criminal, even just of a minor offence, so he's been told to keep his head down and hope nobody investigates the dusty files. But, assuming you are "clean," there are people to advocate for you so applying for citizenship should be a safe bet and would get you the guarantee of remaining in and traveling to and from the US for the rest of your life. If you intend to live here for the foreseeable future, I'd recommend giving it a go lest this administration decide to start trying to arbitrarily yank GCs.
- 8f2ab37a-ed6c 8y ago
  Are there any downsides to getting one, outside of perhaps having to let go of one's other citizenships for countries that don't allow it?
  - techsupporter 8y ago
    That's it so far as I know. If you are, for example, a Japanese or German national then naturalizing as a US citizen may be an issue for your current citizenship. (Germany will likely grant you permission to naturalize; Japan will not.) If you are already a green card holder, you are already subject to the tax and other reporting requirements like a US citizen so the only real difference from the US perspective is you can't vote and aren't guaranteed to be able to cross the US border. It's that last bit that most people really want.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - dostres 8y ago
    The US has tax on all income regardless of residency.
  - dpatriarche 8y ago
    One downside of getting US citizenship is that if you later move to another country (your original country or a third country), you will obligated to continue to file US income tax returns, and potentially pay US income taxes. Depending on your circumstances, your tax filing might be trivial or it might be complicated, and you may or may not actually owe taxes to the US. So this might be a minor annual hassle, or it might be a painful, time consuming and expensive process. It is possible to later give up your US citizenship, but it takes time and costs money.
    - btowngar 8y ago
      If you move to another country and you still hold a Green Card, you must file US income tax returns as well - it's not just for citizens. https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/frequently-asked-questions-about-international-individual-tax-matters https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/freq... "if you are a U.S. citizen or a resident alien living outside the United States, your worldwide income is subject to U.S. income tax, regardless of where you live"
fjsolwmv 8y ago
Green Card has a risk of deportation that citizenship does not. But the current administration is working to make citizenship revocable.
- nraynaud 8y ago
  They have a unit for stripping people's citizenship now.
  - pnw_hazor 8y ago
    Lying on immigration applications has always been grounds for revocation of citizenship.
    - nraynaud 8y ago
      It's not always lying, that's why they created a unit to look into things when they decide to target someone. The trick is asking a lot of information on the forms (to increase the risk of mistakes), and then arguing that any discrepancy found does not have to be material to strip the citizenship. And also stripping the citizenship of all the babies that one doctor or nurse has delivered over their career because they have lied at least once on a form.
- ericd 8y ago
  Gotta give some context or a source for a claim like that. Is the revocation related to people found guilty of terrorism/treason, or is it a lower bar? Or is it if they found you lied in order to get citizenship, as was the case historically with Nazis?
  - toast0 8y ago
    There's been some recent cases around not wanting to accept certificates of home births in southern texas from 20+ years ago.
- btilly 8y ago
  But the current administration is working to make citizenship revocable. I firmly believe that the current administration would love to change the rules on citizenship. However the 14th amendment is extremely clear on this, and the courts have consistently ruled for decades that Congress and the President do not have the right to change the laws to strip citizenship from people. (This was extensively litigated over laws against dual citizenship.) Therefore it is no more reasonable to fear the current administration making citizenship revocable than to fear the previous administration taking all the guns away.
calvinbhai 8y ago
There have been rumors that even naturalized citizens can have their citizenship revoked (but I'm not sure how that'll happen, since it's not easy to get the citizenship of a country that one left). Not sure why one would not get citizenship when they have GC.

echan00 8y ago

As a Canadian (in the Bay Area) today, getting bounced out of the U.S is always at the back of my mind.

techsupporter 8y ago

A friend of mine tells me that one of his biggest regrets from the past handful of years is not having applied for and received citizenship when President Obama was president. He has a misdemeanor (for something that almost every US citizen would consider trivial) from when he was a teenager but because of when it happened and what it is, naturalizing would require a waiver from USCIS in order to proceed (and to not be deported). President Obama's USCIS granted waivers for conduct so many years back almost as a matter of course. President Trump's USCIS--according to the two immigration lawyers my friend has consulted--has not only stopped granting the waivers, they refer applicants for the waivers instead to deportation proceedings. There's no one to advocate for people like him to be able to remain because he is a convicted criminal, even just of a minor offence, so he's been told to keep his head down and hope nobody investigates the dusty files. But, assuming you are "clean," there are people to advocate for you so applying for citizenship should be a safe bet and would get you the guarantee of remaining in and traveling to and from the US for the rest of your life. If you intend to live here for the foreseeable future, I'd recommend giving it a go lest this administration decide to start trying to arbitrarily yank GCs.

8f2ab37a-ed6c 8y ago
Are there any downsides to getting one, outside of perhaps having to let go of one's other citizenships for countries that don't allow it?
- techsupporter 8y ago
  That's it so far as I know. If you are, for example, a Japanese or German national then naturalizing as a US citizen may be an issue for your current citizenship. (Germany will likely grant you permission to naturalize; Japan will not.) If you are already a green card holder, you are already subject to the tax and other reporting requirements like a US citizen so the only real difference from the US perspective is you can't vote and aren't guaranteed to be able to cross the US border. It's that last bit that most people really want.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- dostres 8y ago
  The US has tax on all income regardless of residency.
- dpatriarche 8y ago
  One downside of getting US citizenship is that if you later move to another country (your original country or a third country), you will obligated to continue to file US income tax returns, and potentially pay US income taxes. Depending on your circumstances, your tax filing might be trivial or it might be complicated, and you may or may not actually owe taxes to the US. So this might be a minor annual hassle, or it might be a painful, time consuming and expensive process. It is possible to later give up your US citizenship, but it takes time and costs money.
  - btowngar 8y ago
    If you move to another country and you still hold a Green Card, you must file US income tax returns as well - it's not just for citizens. https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/frequently-asked-questions-about-international-individual-tax-matters https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/freq... "if you are a U.S. citizen or a resident alien living outside the United States, your worldwide income is subject to U.S. income tax, regardless of where you live"

fjsolwmv 8y ago

Green Card has a risk of deportation that citizenship does not. But the current administration is working to make citizenship revocable.

nraynaud 8y ago
They have a unit for stripping people's citizenship now.
- pnw_hazor 8y ago
  Lying on immigration applications has always been grounds for revocation of citizenship.
  - nraynaud 8y ago
    It's not always lying, that's why they created a unit to look into things when they decide to target someone. The trick is asking a lot of information on the forms (to increase the risk of mistakes), and then arguing that any discrepancy found does not have to be material to strip the citizenship. And also stripping the citizenship of all the babies that one doctor or nurse has delivered over their career because they have lied at least once on a form.
ericd 8y ago
Gotta give some context or a source for a claim like that. Is the revocation related to people found guilty of terrorism/treason, or is it a lower bar? Or is it if they found you lied in order to get citizenship, as was the case historically with Nazis?
- toast0 8y ago
  There's been some recent cases around not wanting to accept certificates of home births in southern texas from 20+ years ago.
btilly 8y ago
But the current administration is working to make citizenship revocable. I firmly believe that the current administration would love to change the rules on citizenship. However the 14th amendment is extremely clear on this, and the courts have consistently ruled for decades that Congress and the President do not have the right to change the laws to strip citizenship from people. (This was extensively litigated over laws against dual citizenship.) Therefore it is no more reasonable to fear the current administration making citizenship revocable than to fear the previous administration taking all the guns away.

calvinbhai 8y ago

There have been rumors that even naturalized citizens can have their citizenship revoked (but I'm not sure how that'll happen, since it's not easy to get the citizenship of a country that one left). Not sure why one would not get citizenship when they have GC.