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The use of the word "sunset" as a verb in posts like this is fucking infuriating. Yes, software types know what it means, but this is a consumer product with te

by CPLX 8y ago

The use of the word "sunset" as a verb in posts like this is fucking infuriating. Yes, software types know what it means, but this is a consumer product with tens of millions of users, who have no familiarity with that term. It's a weasel word. The way to say this is in plain English. We're closing, shutting down, turning off, discontinuing, or something.

zdragnar 8y ago
What? Sunsetting something is used outside of software. Hell, it's even used to describe temporary laws ("sunset law"). It's also used for brands and business policies. And, sure, it might not make the top list of 1000 words you might hear on the street on any given day, but it's also very easy to search for. That doesn't make it a weasel word.
- huebomont 8y ago
  It's absolutely a weasel word, because there are plenty of common and clear ways to say this. The only reason it exists is so companies don't have to use words that connote a lack of success.
  - drewfrank 8y ago
    I think it exists because it's a concise way to communicate "this is ending, and will end in a predetermined amount of time, but it has not yet ended" in the same manner that sunset indicates that a day is ending but has not ended yet.
    - lucb1e 8y ago
      I'm a non-native speaker and sunsetting is not clear to me. I guessed what it means because I know Google and how popular Google+ is (in relative terms, I'm sure there's still hundreds of thousands of people who will lose contacts over this), but if someone had said Cloudflare is sunsetting, I'd just not have known what it meant. And even knowing what it means, as I do now, I wouldn't say that sunsetting is any clearer in communicating that it's "going to" end than "shutting down" or "stopping" Google+. It's not as if the proposal said "ended" or "shut down" Google+, the "are" in something like "We're shutting down Google+" signals continuation to me.
      - ncocacola 8y ago
        There you have it, you've learned a new word!
    - CPLX 8y ago
      I think this reply actually captures one of the problems with the term. It's super passive. I realize this usage is becoming an official usage, but the original meaning was something that would end by design and automatically unless it was renewed. Like a law had a sunset provision if it already had an ending named at the time it was created. So the ending is built into the original plan from the beginning, it's bound to happen unless something changes. Like... a sunset. It's not something passive that's happened at Google though. They're saying we are going to close a service that is open, and has been expected to stay open indefinitely. It's not a thing that is just kind of happening, it's a decision that was just made and is being newly announced.
  - wetpaws 8y ago
    "Slaughter" would be a much better word and much closer to truth, imo.
jkaplowitz 8y ago
This post is on the technology section of Google's blog and makes many technical comments about APIs and permissions. It is therefore presumably not the primary consumer-facing announcement of the shutdown. Hopefully they will use one of the terms you noted, or something similar, for that announcement.
8ytecoder 8y ago
That's not true. Sunset years - to mean "a period of decline, especially the last years of a person's life" - is pretty well known. Irrespective of my background that's the first thought that pop into my head.
- huebomont 8y ago
  That's an adjective. "Sunsetting" as a verb is an obnoxious use of language to avoid saying "we failed and are closing"
jasonlotito 8y ago
From the post, literally in bold, and listed as the first action. "We are shutting down Google+ for consumers." > this is fucking infuriating Comments like yours are much worse.
noja 8y ago
The whole post is a weasel word: they exposed data on hundreds of thousands of users THEN CHOSE NOT TO DECLARE THAT. Come on Google.
myth_buster 8y ago
FWIW, the action from finding 1 reads > Action 1: We are _shutting down_ Google+ for consumers.
arbitrage 8y ago
> fucking > software types > weasel word Pull the plank from your own eye first.
_emacsomancer_ 8y ago
I find "consumer Google+" much more confusing than "sunset(ting)".

by CPLX 8y ago

zdragnar 8y ago

What? Sunsetting something is used outside of software. Hell, it's even used to describe temporary laws ("sunset law"). It's also used for brands and business policies. And, sure, it might not make the top list of 1000 words you might hear on the street on any given day, but it's also very easy to search for. That doesn't make it a weasel word.

huebomont 8y ago
It's absolutely a weasel word, because there are plenty of common and clear ways to say this. The only reason it exists is so companies don't have to use words that connote a lack of success.
- drewfrank 8y ago
  I think it exists because it's a concise way to communicate "this is ending, and will end in a predetermined amount of time, but it has not yet ended" in the same manner that sunset indicates that a day is ending but has not ended yet.
  - lucb1e 8y ago
    I'm a non-native speaker and sunsetting is not clear to me. I guessed what it means because I know Google and how popular Google+ is (in relative terms, I'm sure there's still hundreds of thousands of people who will lose contacts over this), but if someone had said Cloudflare is sunsetting, I'd just not have known what it meant. And even knowing what it means, as I do now, I wouldn't say that sunsetting is any clearer in communicating that it's "going to" end than "shutting down" or "stopping" Google+. It's not as if the proposal said "ended" or "shut down" Google+, the "are" in something like "We're shutting down Google+" signals continuation to me.
    - ncocacola 8y ago
      There you have it, you've learned a new word!
  - CPLX 8y ago
    I think this reply actually captures one of the problems with the term. It's super passive. I realize this usage is becoming an official usage, but the original meaning was something that would end by design and automatically unless it was renewed. Like a law had a sunset provision if it already had an ending named at the time it was created. So the ending is built into the original plan from the beginning, it's bound to happen unless something changes. Like... a sunset. It's not something passive that's happened at Google though. They're saying we are going to close a service that is open, and has been expected to stay open indefinitely. It's not a thing that is just kind of happening, it's a decision that was just made and is being newly announced.
- wetpaws 8y ago
  "Slaughter" would be a much better word and much closer to truth, imo.

jkaplowitz 8y ago

This post is on the technology section of Google's blog and makes many technical comments about APIs and permissions. It is therefore presumably not the primary consumer-facing announcement of the shutdown. Hopefully they will use one of the terms you noted, or something similar, for that announcement.

8ytecoder 8y ago

That's not true. Sunset years - to mean "a period of decline, especially the last years of a person's life" - is pretty well known. Irrespective of my background that's the first thought that pop into my head.

huebomont 8y ago
That's an adjective. "Sunsetting" as a verb is an obnoxious use of language to avoid saying "we failed and are closing"

jasonlotito 8y ago

From the post, literally in bold, and listed as the first action. "We are shutting down Google+ for consumers." > this is fucking infuriating Comments like yours are much worse.

noja 8y ago

The whole post is a weasel word: they exposed data on hundreds of thousands of users THEN CHOSE NOT TO DECLARE THAT. Come on Google.

myth_buster 8y ago

FWIW, the action from finding 1 reads > Action 1: We are _shutting down_ Google+ for consumers.

arbitrage 8y ago

> fucking > software types > weasel word Pull the plank from your own eye first.

_emacsomancer_ 8y ago

I find "consumer Google+" much more confusing than "sunset(ting)".