4 ms·

Yeah, this looks very underwhelming. I also think you're letting them off too easy with "too early to expect a Spectre/Meltdown fix". This is a critical securi

Yeah, this looks very underwhelming. I also think you're letting them off too easy with "too early to expect a Spectre/Meltdown fix". This is a critical security bug that was discovered over a year ago. Intel just ignoring the problem and casually releasing yet another (underwhelming) upgrade that doesn't address it all... The fact anyone accepts that just goes to show how low our expectations have dipped when it comes to Intel.

gsnedders 8y ago
Low? How many instances are there of chip bugs being fixed in under a year? It's common across vendors for tape-out to be around a year before they enter the market. This is just the reality of microchip production: the design is set in stone a long time before the enter the market.
blihp 8y ago
Not letting them off, just trying to set realistic expectations. I'm not in chip design, but everything I've seen on the subject suggests that 2-3 years from design to fabrication is the general (minimum) ETA on architectural fixes. The testing needs to be extensive or they risk releasing a worse problem to the world.
- dunpeal 8y ago
  They were aware of these bugs for (at least) 16 months. They could delay releasing new chips until they addressed the problem, even if it took them another year. They did not. Instead, they released a chip with a widely known critical vulnerability. That's on them.
  - lev99 8y ago
    It's on you if you buy it.
  - vbezhenar 8y ago
    Metldown is already fixed by software. So their hardware fixes will just improve performance in some workloads and those workloads are typical for servers, I know that on my PC meltdown fixes did not affect performance in any noticeable way.
chc4 8y ago
Spectre was announced 5 months ago. Even if Intel had a fully laid out and tested new design, with new masks and any changes to the production pipeline the instant it was dropped, just fabbing the chips I've been told has over 6 months lead time.
- dunpeal 8y ago
  Spectre was indeed "announced" 5 months ago, but it was disclosed to Intel on June 1st 2017. That's over 16 months ago. See for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectre_(security_vulnerability)#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectre_(security_vulnerabilit... : > Spectre proper was discovered independently by Jann Horn from Google's Project Zero and Paul Kocher in collaboration with Daniel Genkin, Mike Hamburg, Moritz Lipp and Yuval Yarom. Microsoft Vulnerability Research extended it to browsers' JavaScript JIT engines.[4][20] It was made public in conjunction with another vulnerability, Meltdown, on January 3, 2018, after the affected hardware vendors had already been made aware of the issue on June 1, 2017. There were also stories they were aware of the problem even before, and basically ignored it. If you check out that history section, there were multiple public presentations about the feasibility of an attack for years before the practical exploit was discovered. The only way Intel didn't at least suspect it is if it was very sloppy, or didn't care at all.
  - ldng 8y ago
    And I bet they'll continue to ignore it until people forget about it.
wmf 8y ago
More damning is that fact that Intel does have a fix in Whiskey Lake. So why aren't these 8-core desktop CPUs using Whiskey Lake? https://www.anandtech.com/show/13301/spectre-and-meltdown-in-hardware-intel-clarifies-whiskey-lake-and-amber-lake https://www.anandtech.com/show/13301/spectre-and-meltdown-in...

gsnedders 8y ago

Low? How many instances are there of chip bugs being fixed in under a year? It's common across vendors for tape-out to be around a year before they enter the market. This is just the reality of microchip production: the design is set in stone a long time before the enter the market.

blihp 8y ago

Not letting them off, just trying to set realistic expectations. I'm not in chip design, but everything I've seen on the subject suggests that 2-3 years from design to fabrication is the general (minimum) ETA on architectural fixes. The testing needs to be extensive or they risk releasing a worse problem to the world.

dunpeal 8y ago
They were aware of these bugs for (at least) 16 months. They could delay releasing new chips until they addressed the problem, even if it took them another year. They did not. Instead, they released a chip with a widely known critical vulnerability. That's on them.
- lev99 8y ago
  It's on you if you buy it.
- vbezhenar 8y ago
  Metldown is already fixed by software. So their hardware fixes will just improve performance in some workloads and those workloads are typical for servers, I know that on my PC meltdown fixes did not affect performance in any noticeable way.

chc4 8y ago

Spectre was announced 5 months ago. Even if Intel had a fully laid out and tested new design, with new masks and any changes to the production pipeline the instant it was dropped, just fabbing the chips I've been told has over 6 months lead time.

dunpeal 8y ago
Spectre was indeed "announced" 5 months ago, but it was disclosed to Intel on June 1st 2017. That's over 16 months ago. See for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectre_(security_vulnerability)#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectre_(security_vulnerabilit... : > Spectre proper was discovered independently by Jann Horn from Google's Project Zero and Paul Kocher in collaboration with Daniel Genkin, Mike Hamburg, Moritz Lipp and Yuval Yarom. Microsoft Vulnerability Research extended it to browsers' JavaScript JIT engines.[4][20] It was made public in conjunction with another vulnerability, Meltdown, on January 3, 2018, after the affected hardware vendors had already been made aware of the issue on June 1, 2017. There were also stories they were aware of the problem even before, and basically ignored it. If you check out that history section, there were multiple public presentations about the feasibility of an attack for years before the practical exploit was discovered. The only way Intel didn't at least suspect it is if it was very sloppy, or didn't care at all.
- ldng 8y ago
  And I bet they'll continue to ignore it until people forget about it.

wmf 8y ago

More damning is that fact that Intel does have a fix in Whiskey Lake. So why aren't these 8-core desktop CPUs using Whiskey Lake? https://www.anandtech.com/show/13301/spectre-and-meltdown-in-hardware-intel-clarifies-whiskey-lake-and-amber-lake https://www.anandtech.com/show/13301/spectre-and-meltdown-in...