6 ms·

Lately I've been experiencing some depression (under treatment), so maybe this is just the state of my mind right now, but is anyone else growing more and more

Lately I've been experiencing some depression (under treatment), so maybe this is just the state of my mind right now, but is anyone else growing more and more cynical about the potential for changing the world, and adjusting their moral philosophy to compensate? I could barely impact how my former employer ran the company, and even though I had the company's best interests at heart the whole time, I faced resistance the entire way. Political change is even more out of reach. I grow tired of obviously bad policy ideas being promoted because of political party consensus (on "both" sides). I am exhausted of the generational warfare that is causing newer generations to face an uphill battle for the rest of their lives, with higher health care costs, higher housing costs, higher environmental costs, higher education costs, and lower wages. I'm sick of inaction on important issues, misguided action on petty issues, and the nonexistent potential for small unpolitical changes that could have big impacts but won't ever see the time of day because the need for political posturing doesn't allow for it (like for example, a change to the metric system). I feel trapped and helpless to change anything. And sometimes my feeling of helplessness has made it so I can no longer muster the effort to care for things that are so far beyond my control. I'm at the point on Maslow's Hierarchy where taking care of my family's survival is the only important thing anymore. I sometimes ponder whether I should just go out and get some kind of unethical job that pays a ton of money (and there is no shortage of those kinds of jobs for people of my talents) merely because it accomplishes that goal more efficiently. But then I feel bad about entertaining that thought. I don't really know what to do about it.

mempko 8y ago
Where the world needs changing is it's suicidal path towards extreme climate change.
- gersh 8y ago
  I think we need to convince people to stop studying petroleum engineering and prepare for a different economy instead. If you'd like to work with me on this, please email me.
  - cryoshon 8y ago
    what do you have in mind?
    - gersh 8y ago
      1) Reach out to people studying Petroleum Engineering and convince them to study something else. This can be done through thing like websites, social media and handing out flyers. 2) Convince universities to end their Petroleum Engineering programs. This can involve petitions of students, faculty, alumni, and donors 3) Influence career counselors and make resources to help people study how to do things which are good for the world.
  - alach11 8y ago
    I'm a petroleum engineer and I think this is a really interesting idea. What effect do you think this might have on the O&G industry? I'm guessing it would force companies to raise wages to attract employees, hurting their bottom-line. This might, in a roundabout way, increase the cost of gasoline and make renewables more competitive. A carbon tax might be a simpler approach, though I don't know what you could do on a personal level to influence that.
mxuribe 8y ago
Your comments really spoke to me. While I can't say that all the topics you noted impact me to the same degree, there are certainly similarities in how I also feel about some of them. Perhaps my following plan of what I'm doing might help you, or give you some mild inspiration/ideas... 1. Lessen overall life expenses. Why? Not so much to be financially independent/retire early (I think they call this "FiRE")...though that would be great...It is more about giving myself even more leverage in job searches and salary negotiations. If my expenses are lower, then getting a job with a non-profit/NGO whose mission i might believe allows me to think less about likely getting a lower-than-industry-standard salary. 2. Focus on a side hustle. Now, this could be a side business, which - if successful - further detaches you from being beholden to a corporate entity...Or, it could simply be volunteering for a local cause that you believe in, or even civic engagement more with your local community (e.g. getting involved in local town/citizen meetings), etc. The trick here is that you have to keep levels manageable. You want this side hustle specifically for the purposes to only slightly distract you from any depressive feelings you gain from your dayjob. If this side hustle grows too cumbersome, the fear is that this could of course lead you to burnout, which could lead to more triggers for feelings of depression. Use this as a distraction BUT more so for seeking areas of inspiration. (Caveat: I am NOT a mental health professional/doctor.) 3. Make a plan for where you want to see yourself in 10 years. Normally, people put the plan first...but here I'm putting as step #3. Honestly, this step does not have to await conclusion of the above steps...you merely have to at least be well underway on both steps. This is purposeful. Sometimes people really don't know what they want to do for their rest of their lives, or at least in the next few years. By preparing you - making you financially flexible (due to having such low expenses vs. your current salary), and pumping your energy levels up (via either side hustle or volunteering/civic activity - first, it sort puts you through mental basic training. Then after you are deep into the first 2 steps, begin to formalize a plan for your life, or better yet, a plan for the next 10 years of your life. 4. Execute on the plan. At some point - most likely - you will stumble upon something that gives you fulfillment. It might be wanting to create a non-profit startup, or maybe you will decide to be a community organizer (not as a volunteer, but as your full-time profession), or maybe you will create your own for-profit company, but you will run it in a way that you feel good about/fulfills you. Whatever it is, execute on your plan; 'nuff said. I have no idea if the above proposal will work for you; YMMV. (I myself am not even all the way through it yet!) I also will clearly state that i am NOT a life coach nor a mental health professional, nor a doctor...I'm basically just a human being posting a comment on hacker news...So, from one stranger to another, I surely hope my comments help, and I really hope that you find what fulfills you.
carapace 8y ago
Study Buckminster Fuller. He's an engineer who had a kind of spiritual epiphany and dedicated his life to a kind of hyper-realist "Design Science Revolution". In his lifetime he was one of the most famous (world-wide) Americans ever to have lived. He traveled around the world more than eighty times. There is a form of carbon named after him: Buckminsterfullerene. Anyhow, he calculated that we would have the technology to save the world and fix everything by sometime in the 1970's. That happened, so now all our problems are basically psychological or spiritual. It also so happens that a working psychology was invented/discovered in the mid 1970's and subsequently refined. It's called "Neurolinguistic Programming" (NLP) and it's basically the OS of the mind. Using NLP and off-the-shelf technology we can stop ourselves being foolish jerks and provide a high standard of living for everyone forever. I suffered from crushing depression until my mid-20's and was totally cured, after considerable self-improvement, by a single intervention with Dr. Bandler (one of the co-founders of NLP) that lasted less than twenty minutes. Let me repeat that in case I'm not being totally clear: A life-long depression that interfered with my ability to live a normal life (I was homeless for about four years after high school) was cured in a 20 minute session of NLP-informed hypnosis with Dr. Richard Bandler. So, we have the psychological technology and the physical technology to solve all our problems. It really is just a matter of getting the word out and putting our backs into it. My specific recommendations to you are: 1. study NLP and go talk to practitioners, maybe even get some therapy; and 2. Study applied ecology (E.g. Permaculture) and start a small productive system (farm!) to begin to meet your personal needs in a economical and ecological manner. "The plan was good, it was right, and no one had to get nailed to anything." BTW, NLP is pretty easy to learn and it's a great career if you're at all good at it. An experienced therapist commands remuneration comparable to that of a computer programmer. Last but not least, browse Rex Research: http://rexresearch.com/1index.htm http://rexresearch.com/1index.htm There is a lot of weird crap in there but in between the crack-pottery you'll find mind-blowing cool technologies. The idea is to break out of your funk by confronting yourself with existing real-world solutions to all the various BS confronting us today. My hobby is collecting powerful ideas, I can assure you the best things out there are really amazing and you haven't heard anything yet!
- Finch2192 8y ago
  How do you find such an experienced therapist? What do you mean by "all our problems are basically psychological or spiritual"? Why do we have to slog through crackpottery for insight?
Domenic_S 8y ago
This is either going to resonate with you or seem totally out of left field, but I'm going to say it anyway: everything you're saying is unconscious defense against changing _yourself_. You don't need to affect policy on a national level to change the world. Changing the world can be as simple as putting the phone away and being present for your family, or volunteering at a local soup kitchen. Cleaning up the side of the highway or mowing an elderly neighbor's lawn. You can make a positive change for people in your own neighborhood. This is where the defense comes in; acknowledging that there are things you can do _today_ means acknowledging that you're not doing those things which means you have to set up a straw man for yourself of world-sized problems that you can't fix so that you don't feel bad about not doing anything. We all have this heuristic in our minds whether we know it or not: feeling good > feeling bad, but feeling bad > the effort of changing yourself. So we accept feeling bad, and do mental gymnastics (I can't change America to the metric system, so I guess there's no point in doing anything) to minimize. My advice: don't overthink it. Don't worry about doing something with your life. Just do something with your day!
- brokenmachine 8y ago
  Well put. I'll try to keep that in mind too.
hasbroslasher 8y ago
Just saying: you can and should find a job that aligns more with your moral interests. I worked at a socially meaningless music startup for the last couple of years before moving into a job in Alternative Energy. While I still don't have all the control and can't instantly change the world at will, I do know that my time spent at work directly improves work in my field and that every good job I do is a good job for wind energy in general, which is one of our few hopes for doing something to fix climate change.
i_made_a_booboo 8y ago
Interestingly, I think it was in the book The Elephant In The Brain, it remarks that sometimes people are depressed because they stop looking at the world through the normal veneer of self-deception and start seeing it for what it is and they realize how horrible, sad and shitty humanity and the world actually is.
gersh 8y ago
I've felt similarly. I'd be interested in discussing solutions with anyone, who is interested. Please email me (email in profile) if you want to discuss this stuff.
TangoTrotFox 8y ago
You know what the most amazing thing about Google is? 20 years ago they didn't exist. Today they are undoubtedly one of the most influential companies in the world and with enough revenue and influence to achieve as much as anybody. The reason I mention this is that I don't think one should look to get others to try to change the world. People will do what they want to do. Proving the value of your views is difficult, but probably easier than convincing those with the power to adapt them in a meaningful way to do just that. You have to keep in mind that things look different from different perspectives. It seems that swapping to metric should be no big deal. In reality we already have things like the Mars Climate Orbiter. That was a $300 million probe launched by NASA in 1998. It disintegrated in Mars' orbit. What happened? The spacecraft was built to operate using SI units. Unfortunately one of the systems they were using to direct it was still using customary measurements. $300 million completely wasted because of what you'd think would be no big deal. It should be easy to just ensure all systems are communicating using the same systems of measurement, right? And NASA certainly has decently competent people working for them. But the thing is as things get larger and larger seemingly simple changes can often produce unexpectedly catastrophic side effects, or end up being far more difficult to synchronize than would ever be expected. Actually, this nature of software alone is probably a perfect microcosm of the nature of change in business as well. So yeah, earn a ton of money doing whatever. And then use that money to do what you think ought be done. If you succeed, great you've changed the world. If not, try again.
- 0xcde4c3db 8y ago
  > You know what the most amazing thing about Google is? 20 years ago they didn't exist. This is kind of a tangent, but: Today I learned that this recently became untrue. https://www.google.com/doodles/googles-20th-birthday https://www.google.com/doodles/googles-20th-birthday
schizoidboy 8y ago
I was in a similar state of mind and things turned around after pursuing more meaningful work in biotech. There's a whole subfield of Psychology that researches how people find meaningful work and it helped me greatly. A few places to start: https://dx.doi.org/10.1080/17439760.2015.1137623 https://dx.doi.org/10.1080/17439760.2015.1137623 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLFVoEF2RI0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLFVoEF2RI0
brokenmachine 8y ago
That's the system working as designed by the ruling class. A person under so many personal pressures won't have the resources or energy to force the ruling class into fixing those bigger issues. It's perfect positive feedback to enable the rich to get richer. I'm cynical too. I'm on a "good salary" but still can't afford my own home, and have made the decision to not have children mostly because I don't like the way anything is headed and don't see any change on the horizon. When 8 people control more resources than 50% of the people on the planet [1], it's pretty clear that the evil overlords have already won. I don't know how to fix it but I'm blown away by the apathy of most people towards the disgusting state of affairs. From the finance sector bailout, which still blows my mind, to justice only for the rich and powerful while ridiculous numbers of people are put in jail for non-violent crime - which is sure to continue because of lobbying by the private prison industry, everyone knows it's unfair but the population has been beat into a feeling of powerlessness and somehow blaming each other and immigrants instead of the ridiculously greedy beyond comprehension 1% who are really responsible. Everyone seems to be a crab in a bucket harboring secret dreams of eventually being part of the 1% while simultaneously not willing to admit the fact they are struggling much more than they should be with the amount of resources out there, unfortunately hoarded by a very small percentage of people who have successfully lobbied the politicians to continue the status quo. So no, I don't think you're alone... Edit: Some people have suggested some useful ideas here to do something about it at a local level. I'm going to try not to be so cynical and think of the problem being too big to fix, but it's difficult. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2017/jan/16/worlds-eight-richest-people-have-same-wealth-as-poorest-50 https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2017/jan/16/w...

mempko 8y ago

Where the world needs changing is it's suicidal path towards extreme climate change.

gersh 8y ago
I think we need to convince people to stop studying petroleum engineering and prepare for a different economy instead. If you'd like to work with me on this, please email me.
- cryoshon 8y ago
  what do you have in mind?
  - gersh 8y ago
    1) Reach out to people studying Petroleum Engineering and convince them to study something else. This can be done through thing like websites, social media and handing out flyers. 2) Convince universities to end their Petroleum Engineering programs. This can involve petitions of students, faculty, alumni, and donors 3) Influence career counselors and make resources to help people study how to do things which are good for the world.
- alach11 8y ago
  I'm a petroleum engineer and I think this is a really interesting idea. What effect do you think this might have on the O&G industry? I'm guessing it would force companies to raise wages to attract employees, hurting their bottom-line. This might, in a roundabout way, increase the cost of gasoline and make renewables more competitive. A carbon tax might be a simpler approach, though I don't know what you could do on a personal level to influence that.

mxuribe 8y ago

Your comments really spoke to me. While I can't say that all the topics you noted impact me to the same degree, there are certainly similarities in how I also feel about some of them. Perhaps my following plan of what I'm doing might help you, or give you some mild inspiration/ideas... 1. Lessen overall life expenses. Why? Not so much to be financially independent/retire early (I think they call this "FiRE")...though that would be great...It is more about giving myself even more leverage in job searches and salary negotiations. If my expenses are lower, then getting a job with a non-profit/NGO whose mission i might believe allows me to think less about likely getting a lower-than-industry-standard salary. 2. Focus on a side hustle. Now, this could be a side business, which - if successful - further detaches you from being beholden to a corporate entity...Or, it could simply be volunteering for a local cause that you believe in, or even civic engagement more with your local community (e.g. getting involved in local town/citizen meetings), etc. The trick here is that you have to keep levels manageable. You want this side hustle specifically for the purposes to only slightly distract you from any depressive feelings you gain from your dayjob. If this side hustle grows too cumbersome, the fear is that this could of course lead you to burnout, which could lead to more triggers for feelings of depression. Use this as a distraction BUT more so for seeking areas of inspiration. (Caveat: I am NOT a mental health professional/doctor.) 3. Make a plan for where you want to see yourself in 10 years. Normally, people put the plan first...but here I'm putting as step #3. Honestly, this step does not have to await conclusion of the above steps...you merely have to at least be well underway on both steps. This is purposeful. Sometimes people really don't know what they want to do for their rest of their lives, or at least in the next few years. By preparing you - making you financially flexible (due to having such low expenses vs. your current salary), and pumping your energy levels up (via either side hustle or volunteering/civic activity - first, it sort puts you through mental basic training. Then after you are deep into the first 2 steps, begin to formalize a plan for your life, or better yet, a plan for the next 10 years of your life. 4. Execute on the plan. At some point - most likely - you will stumble upon something that gives you fulfillment. It might be wanting to create a non-profit startup, or maybe you will decide to be a community organizer (not as a volunteer, but as your full-time profession), or maybe you will create your own for-profit company, but you will run it in a way that you feel good about/fulfills you. Whatever it is, execute on your plan; 'nuff said. I have no idea if the above proposal will work for you; YMMV. (I myself am not even all the way through it yet!) I also will clearly state that i am NOT a life coach nor a mental health professional, nor a doctor...I'm basically just a human being posting a comment on hacker news...So, from one stranger to another, I surely hope my comments help, and I really hope that you find what fulfills you.

carapace 8y ago

Study Buckminster Fuller. He's an engineer who had a kind of spiritual epiphany and dedicated his life to a kind of hyper-realist "Design Science Revolution". In his lifetime he was one of the most famous (world-wide) Americans ever to have lived. He traveled around the world more than eighty times. There is a form of carbon named after him: Buckminsterfullerene. Anyhow, he calculated that we would have the technology to save the world and fix everything by sometime in the 1970's. That happened, so now all our problems are basically psychological or spiritual. It also so happens that a working psychology was invented/discovered in the mid 1970's and subsequently refined. It's called "Neurolinguistic Programming" (NLP) and it's basically the OS of the mind. Using NLP and off-the-shelf technology we can stop ourselves being foolish jerks and provide a high standard of living for everyone forever. I suffered from crushing depression until my mid-20's and was totally cured, after considerable self-improvement, by a single intervention with Dr. Bandler (one of the co-founders of NLP) that lasted less than twenty minutes. Let me repeat that in case I'm not being totally clear: A life-long depression that interfered with my ability to live a normal life (I was homeless for about four years after high school) was cured in a 20 minute session of NLP-informed hypnosis with Dr. Richard Bandler. So, we have the psychological technology and the physical technology to solve all our problems. It really is just a matter of getting the word out and putting our backs into it. My specific recommendations to you are: 1. study NLP and go talk to practitioners, maybe even get some therapy; and 2. Study applied ecology (E.g. Permaculture) and start a small productive system (farm!) to begin to meet your personal needs in a economical and ecological manner. "The plan was good, it was right, and no one had to get nailed to anything." BTW, NLP is pretty easy to learn and it's a great career if you're at all good at it. An experienced therapist commands remuneration comparable to that of a computer programmer. Last but not least, browse Rex Research: http://rexresearch.com/1index.htm http://rexresearch.com/1index.htm There is a lot of weird crap in there but in between the crack-pottery you'll find mind-blowing cool technologies. The idea is to break out of your funk by confronting yourself with existing real-world solutions to all the various BS confronting us today. My hobby is collecting powerful ideas, I can assure you the best things out there are really amazing and you haven't heard anything yet!

Finch2192 8y ago
How do you find such an experienced therapist? What do you mean by "all our problems are basically psychological or spiritual"? Why do we have to slog through crackpottery for insight?

Domenic_S 8y ago

This is either going to resonate with you or seem totally out of left field, but I'm going to say it anyway: everything you're saying is unconscious defense against changing _yourself_. You don't need to affect policy on a national level to change the world. Changing the world can be as simple as putting the phone away and being present for your family, or volunteering at a local soup kitchen. Cleaning up the side of the highway or mowing an elderly neighbor's lawn. You can make a positive change for people in your own neighborhood. This is where the defense comes in; acknowledging that there are things you can do _today_ means acknowledging that you're not doing those things which means you have to set up a straw man for yourself of world-sized problems that you can't fix so that you don't feel bad about not doing anything. We all have this heuristic in our minds whether we know it or not: feeling good > feeling bad, but feeling bad > the effort of changing yourself. So we accept feeling bad, and do mental gymnastics (I can't change America to the metric system, so I guess there's no point in doing anything) to minimize. My advice: don't overthink it. Don't worry about doing something with your life. Just do something with your day!

brokenmachine 8y ago
Well put. I'll try to keep that in mind too.

hasbroslasher 8y ago

Just saying: you can and should find a job that aligns more with your moral interests. I worked at a socially meaningless music startup for the last couple of years before moving into a job in Alternative Energy. While I still don't have all the control and can't instantly change the world at will, I do know that my time spent at work directly improves work in my field and that every good job I do is a good job for wind energy in general, which is one of our few hopes for doing something to fix climate change.

i_made_a_booboo 8y ago

Interestingly, I think it was in the book The Elephant In The Brain, it remarks that sometimes people are depressed because they stop looking at the world through the normal veneer of self-deception and start seeing it for what it is and they realize how horrible, sad and shitty humanity and the world actually is.

gersh 8y ago

I've felt similarly. I'd be interested in discussing solutions with anyone, who is interested. Please email me (email in profile) if you want to discuss this stuff.

TangoTrotFox 8y ago

You know what the most amazing thing about Google is? 20 years ago they didn't exist. Today they are undoubtedly one of the most influential companies in the world and with enough revenue and influence to achieve as much as anybody. The reason I mention this is that I don't think one should look to get others to try to change the world. People will do what they want to do. Proving the value of your views is difficult, but probably easier than convincing those with the power to adapt them in a meaningful way to do just that. You have to keep in mind that things look different from different perspectives. It seems that swapping to metric should be no big deal. In reality we already have things like the Mars Climate Orbiter. That was a $300 million probe launched by NASA in 1998. It disintegrated in Mars' orbit. What happened? The spacecraft was built to operate using SI units. Unfortunately one of the systems they were using to direct it was still using customary measurements. $300 million completely wasted because of what you'd think would be no big deal. It should be easy to just ensure all systems are communicating using the same systems of measurement, right? And NASA certainly has decently competent people working for them. But the thing is as things get larger and larger seemingly simple changes can often produce unexpectedly catastrophic side effects, or end up being far more difficult to synchronize than would ever be expected. Actually, this nature of software alone is probably a perfect microcosm of the nature of change in business as well. So yeah, earn a ton of money doing whatever. And then use that money to do what you think ought be done. If you succeed, great you've changed the world. If not, try again.

0xcde4c3db 8y ago
> You know what the most amazing thing about Google is? 20 years ago they didn't exist. This is kind of a tangent, but: Today I learned that this recently became untrue. https://www.google.com/doodles/googles-20th-birthday https://www.google.com/doodles/googles-20th-birthday

schizoidboy 8y ago

I was in a similar state of mind and things turned around after pursuing more meaningful work in biotech. There's a whole subfield of Psychology that researches how people find meaningful work and it helped me greatly. A few places to start: https://dx.doi.org/10.1080/17439760.2015.1137623 https://dx.doi.org/10.1080/17439760.2015.1137623 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLFVoEF2RI0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLFVoEF2RI0

brokenmachine 8y ago

That's the system working as designed by the ruling class. A person under so many personal pressures won't have the resources or energy to force the ruling class into fixing those bigger issues. It's perfect positive feedback to enable the rich to get richer. I'm cynical too. I'm on a "good salary" but still can't afford my own home, and have made the decision to not have children mostly because I don't like the way anything is headed and don't see any change on the horizon. When 8 people control more resources than 50% of the people on the planet [1], it's pretty clear that the evil overlords have already won. I don't know how to fix it but I'm blown away by the apathy of most people towards the disgusting state of affairs. From the finance sector bailout, which still blows my mind, to justice only for the rich and powerful while ridiculous numbers of people are put in jail for non-violent crime - which is sure to continue because of lobbying by the private prison industry, everyone knows it's unfair but the population has been beat into a feeling of powerlessness and somehow blaming each other and immigrants instead of the ridiculously greedy beyond comprehension 1% who are really responsible. Everyone seems to be a crab in a bucket harboring secret dreams of eventually being part of the 1% while simultaneously not willing to admit the fact they are struggling much more than they should be with the amount of resources out there, unfortunately hoarded by a very small percentage of people who have successfully lobbied the politicians to continue the status quo. So no, I don't think you're alone... Edit: Some people have suggested some useful ideas here to do something about it at a local level. I'm going to try not to be so cynical and think of the problem being too big to fix, but it's difficult. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2017/jan/16/worlds-eight-richest-people-have-same-wealth-as-poorest-50 https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2017/jan/16/w...